Surrogacy...

[Kilroy the Ninja]

I used to have such respect for Joan Lunden, even after her "messy" divorce in the early 90's. But honestly, I don't think I could give two wits about her now...

I read this first thing this morning and it just makes me ill. I guess I could be one of those people calling it, "breathtakingly selfish".

I know the Church expressly forbids it. Am I wrong to loath those who perpetrate it?

Now I feel like I should run out and adopt a child to help make up for it...and in a way, the whole thing makes me feel kinda selfish myself since I had to make "corrections" (not IVF or anything like that) for my own hormone issues before I could get pregnant. Was that selfish?

[jasJis]

As a GodFather to an adopted child, I am horrifed at Lunden's act. I have many friends and family members who have adopted 'less than perfect' blonde blue-eyed babies with stories of numerous children left in orphanages, hospitals, and foster homes that are waiting for adoption.

$100,000 to adopt and all the money for in-viteuro to create embryonic children? They could have adopted a special needs child and hired assistance to help care for them and give these abandoned children a gift of hope and joy for that $100,000.

I wonder how many of their embryonic children were sacrificed on the selfish quest? How many will exist in a frozen limbo, only to be careless disposed of later?

[hr}]

Kilroy,

In what way were you selfish? Did you have embryos frozen or destroyed? Or did you use non-lethal medical help to aid your body to function as God intended us to?

[Kilroy the Ninja]

Oh no! I would never, ever, ever consider having any embryo destroyed or even created outside of myself....

No, we used Clomid to induce ovulation, which I think is acceptable (is it?), and I sometimes feel selfish 'cause I did spend extra money and time to get pregnant (not that much money though since Don John is a Catholic school teacher )

[jasJis]

...I sometimes feel selfish 'cause I did spend extra money and time to get pregnant ....

I have no idea about Clomid and what it does. If it helps ovaltion within your body, I don't see a problem. If it's one of the proceedures that makes multiple conceptions occur, it would still seem natural unless artifical means were used to selectively abort some embryoes.

On the other question, how much extra time are we talking about? Was DJ resentful? *insert immature snicker here*

[Azriel]

Man Ninja, I wholeheartedly agree with you. I watched a snippet of that bit on Joan Lunden this morning, and I couldn't believe what an incredibly selfish thing she's done.

I see nothing wrong with Clomid. I've been burdened with female issues since, well, I could start having female issues ... I didn't have to use clomid, but I don't see where its not acceptable, and would have if it had been necessary. I think, to a certain extent, woman are selfish when it comes to childbirth. Its something that we (for the most part) WANT to do. Sometimes its God's will, and sometimes it isn't.

[Kilroy the Ninja]

I have no idea about Clomid and what it does.  If it helps ovaltion within your body, I don't see a problem.  If it's one of the proceedures that makes multiple conceptions occur, it would still seem natural unless artifical means were used to selectively abort some embryoes.

On the other question, how much extra time are we talking about?  Was DJ resentful? *insert immature snicker here*

As far as I know (and I'm no expert) Clomid causes the egg to be released. And in some cases, it can cause more than one egg to be released. This is to make up for my lack of natural hormone to do this.

DJ resentful of the extra time? Well, it only took a couple of months with the Clomid and, well, he was happy to step up to the plate and take it for the team, so to speak. **immature giggles all over the place**

[IcePrincessKRS]

While Lunden confirmed that Bolig has no biological relationship to the twins, she would not reveal whose eggs were used. "I'm not going on record as saying anything," Lunden said. "We've really taken the position that we want to not be public about how we go about creating our children."

Ok, so why broadcast all this stuff in the first place? Lunden is full of it.

Kilroy, I'm almost 100% sure that things like Clomid are ok to use. It's methods that require interruption of the congugal act, or fertilization outside the congugal act.

On the other question, how much extra time are we talking about? Was DJ resentful? *insert immature snicker here*  like IVF, etc. that are immoral

.

Maybe I'm a little off the mark, but from what I have seen of Don John I don't think he would have condoned the use of Clomid if he thought it might be even slightly wrong/immoral to use. From what you said its a drug to encourage ovulation, so while it assists your natural cycle it doesn't have the same objectionable aspects as other "fertility helpers."

[Good Friday]

What struck me as really horrifying was the phrase "creating our children." That's really what it comes down to, we're trying to take the creative power out of God's hands and into our own, which will no doubt have disastrous consequences. We cannot expect to duplicate what God does perfectly, if we try it can only result in imperfection, probably of a very serious nature.

As for what Kilroy was asking about... the Church approves fertility drugs and such. After all, the normal means of having a family is through marital relations, so that's what the Church encourages. If the Church had her way (and she should), there would be no children to adopt, because parents and/or families of parents wouldn't abandon them. So no, Kilroy, I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to have children the natural, biological way.

However, I do see something very wrong with what Joan Lunden is doing, and it lies in the "creating our children" phrase. People who use fertility drugs are not "creating their children," they're aiding in the creative process, they're just enhancing the capability to have children the natural way. On the other hand, people who do the other are trying to create children the way they want them. It's all very reminiscent of Hitler and the master race. Isn't the "master child" what every woman who gets in-vitro fertilization is going for? It's very sickening.

It annoys me that we detest that Hitler was trying to get a master race through genocide (and we should detest it), but that society finds it acceptable for women (and men, since it's men who make the laws that allow it) to try to get a master race through... well, genocide. The frozen embryos not used are eventually destroyed. What they're doing with in-vitro fertilization really isn't a lot different than what Hitler did. I'm sure that could bring a regular barrage of negative comments about my intolerance, but if you think about it, it's true.