Insurgency

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Sep 9 2005, 07:53 PM']Civil law is not solely based on the moral law.

For example, there is no moral prohibition against, say, driving 80 miles instead of 60 miles on the highway. But the government has a right to regulate its own borders, and we are subject to its decisions, particularly in grave matters such as evacuating a disaster-torn population.
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[quote]Civil law is not solely based on the moral law.[/quote] In theory it is driving 60 i supposed to be safer for the general public and therefore morally justifiable.

[quote]But the government has a right to regulate its own borders, and we are subject to its decisions, particularly in grave matters such as evacuating a disaster-torn population.[/quote] I just don't even know what to say here, lets just say that I reject the notion that the right to regulate a borders gives the state the right to confiscate property from law abiding citizens.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='hierochloe' date='Sep 9 2005, 07:59 PM']I heard a report on this topic that said there is no legal way to forcibly evacuate in NO except to condemn the property, which is appropriate considering the safety problem. Do you think they would let people live on a superfund site?
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they did here in houston because it was cheaper than paying them for it, and they are not compensating people for their property they are confiscatng it.

[hierochloe]

Well, that's jacked tbh.

[Jaime]

HOLY carp

Two threads now where DJ and I totally agree.

[kateri05]

at first, DJ, i was with you.

but then, i remembered the moral logic of why you have to obey the gov't underage drinking law: authority comes from God, and the govt has legitimate authority and as long as they are not violating the moral law (and thus God's laws), we are obliged to follow them out of submission to authority, which is ultimately submission to God Himself.

is this situation in some way in violation of the moral law? i'm not sure i see how it is

[Aloysius]

there are limits to the authority of government. I for one believe that the state does not hold any authority to prohibit alchohol to anyone. alchohol is a divine gift and an intrinsic good. we do not have to obey the underage drinking laws.

yes, all authority comes from God. therefore, God does not give authority to forbid alchohol, any more than God gives authority to forbid sex. they are both intrinsic goods.

a song comes to mind that is continually blasted through the hallways of my dorm "sex and beer, sex and beer, are the two things we like here"

lol okay, so that was dumb, but the point stands.

I don't believe we are bound by age-limit alchohol laws, and I don't believe the government should be able to force people off of property they rightly own. of course with property taxes we might as well be paying rent to the government to borrow their land nowadays for the very concept of private property is nearly completely gone.

[hierochloe]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Sep 9 2005, 07:28 PM']well being evaced doesn't include forcing me to do anything, now does it.
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Unless it's mandatory?

Admittedly, I'm torn.

However, the law has the authority through certain procedures to forcibly remove a person from premises whether they own the property or not. It could be used to justify forced evac.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Sep 10 2005, 12:59 AM']there are limits to the authority of government.  I for one believe that the state does not hold any authority to prohibit alchohol to anyone.  alchohol is a divine gift and an intrinsic good.  we do not have to obey the underage drinking laws.

yes, all authority comes from God.  therefore, God does not give authority to forbid alchohol, any more than God gives authority to forbid sex.  they are both intrinsic goods.

a song comes to mind that is continually blasted through the hallways of my dorm "sex and beer, sex and beer, are the two things we like here"

lol okay, so that was dumb, but the point stands.

I don't believe we are bound by age-limit alchohol laws, and I don't believe the government should be able to force people off of property they rightly own.  of course with property taxes we might as well be paying rent to the government to borrow their land nowadays for the very concept of private property is nearly completely gone.
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:

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='kateri05' date='Sep 9 2005, 11:36 PM']at first, DJ, i was with you.

but then, i remembered the moral logic of why you have to obey the gov't underage drinking law:  authority comes from God, and the govt has legitimate authority and as long as they are not violating the moral law (and thus God's laws), we are obliged to follow them out of submission to authority, which is ultimately submission to God Himself.

is this situation in some way in violation of the moral law?  i'm not sure i see how it is
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taking law abiding citizens property with out just cause and compensation is agianst the moral law.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='hierochloe' date='Sep 10 2005, 02:23 AM']Unless it's mandatory?

Admittedly, I'm torn.

However, the law has the authority through certain procedures to forcibly remove a person from premises whether they own the property or not. It could be used to justify forced evac.
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In La as in Texas there is no such thing as a Magnatory Evacuation in the sense there is on the east coast. There is no prevision in Law down here to make people leave. In La. and Tx, a maganatory evac means this --- Leave now we won't help you or try to save you or give you any aid if you stay, your on your own. --- I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with men with guns coming to confiscate my guns and then removing me from my home to go to a shelter some where.

[hierochloe]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Sep 10 2005, 11:32 AM']In La as in Texas there is no such thing as a Magnatory Evacuation in the sense there is on the east coast. There is no prevision in Law down here to make people leave. In La. and Tx, a maganatory evac means this --- Leave now  we won't help you or try to save you or give you any aid if you stay, your on your own. --- I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with men with guns coming to confiscate my guns and then removing me from my home to go to a shelter some where.
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If the government condemns your property, and yes that [i]could[/i] be done despite being unjust or unwarranted, you can legally be removed even in LA.. Of course, it wouldn't then qualify as a forced evacuation. It would be an eviction.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='hierochloe' date='Sep 10 2005, 11:36 AM']If the government condemns your property, and yes that [i]could[/i] be done despite being unjust or unwarranted, you can legally be removed even in LA.. Of course, it wouldn't then qualify as a forced evacuation. It would be an eviction.
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you are correct. But if the government is condemning your property unjustly then it is by definition unjust and one is permited to fight unjust governments. So those who fight would be in the right and the government workers would be sinfully taking away property and perhaps the lives and freedom of those citizens involved.

[MichaelFilo]

Any civil law or mandate, to be binding on a Catholic( who is required to always concede to the government's laws when it doesn't interfere with what is morally right), must be within the authority of the government to mandate on. Forced evactuation is and has never been a power invested in the United States government. The United States governments cannot steal from innocent citizens, nor can it remove someones rights to their property. Now, understanding that, there are certain statues and lawas which override such limitations, such as public health and safety laws. So, it would seem that the government, in theory, can remove these people from their homes. However, taking a gun by someone who can legally possess one is not only outside of the bounds of the United States government, it is highly immoral. So, I can't say that at this point it is anywhere near right what the people in there are doing because simply it is outside of the bounds of the government to take something from someone without due cause. We left that behind in the tyrannical kingdoms of Europe 230 years ago.

God bless,
Mikey

[hierochloe]

I agree that stealing property is wrong, regardless of its lack of value once it has been severely contaminted.

I also think that it's not right for our EMS/first responders to have to put themselves in danger when some idiot decides to wisen up after the fact. So I don't pity the ones needlessly putting themselves at risk all that much, regardless of their legal or moral right to do so. You act like a child, you get treated like a child. No guns or sharp, pointy things, stay away from the water.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='hierochloe' date='Sep 10 2005, 12:57 PM']I agree that stealing property is wrong, regardless of its lack of value once it has been severely contaminted.

I also think that it's not right for our EMS/first responders to have to put themselves in danger when some idiot decides to wisen up after the fact. So I don't pity the ones needlessly putting themselves at risk all that much, regardless of their legal or moral right to do so. You act like a child, you get treated like a child. No guns or sharp, pointy things, stay away from the water.
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many many good are just fine after stitting in themost vile water for a week or more. And the Government does not have the right to tell me what is child like behavior. IF this was in houston, and the "emergency workers " were confiscating my property, well they'd get my guns one bullet at a time.