Gah!... why?

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='Light and Truth' date='Sep 9 2005, 02:32 PM']Not all Protestants are that charasmatic.  It was amazing just how similar the Catholic mass at my old college was compared to the services at my old Lutheran church.  But some charasmatic protestants do seem a bit wacked at least theologically like those who think that if you have the Holy Spirit in you, you must be able to speak in tongues as a prayer language which would be different than the other gift of speaking in tongues.
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the lutheran "service" is not anything like the tridentine mass.

i have experienced both on a number of occasians

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Sep 9 2005, 10:38 PM']the lutheran "service" is not anything like the tridentine mass.

i have experienced both on a number of occasians
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Why do you say "service"? Do you deny that it's a service?

As for being like the Tridentine Mass...I believe she was referring to the Novus Ordo Missae, not the Tridentine, so that's really very irrelevant, isn't it?

[brendan1104]

so charismatics:

claiming that: rolling on the floor, hysterical (from what i can tell) forced laughter, and making noises like animals, vacuum cleaners, and general hum-diddle-dee-hum-diddle-i "tongues" protestant lyrics in supposed "hymns" are to be accepted, much less as catholic?

give me a break.

thank God i'm considered "phishy" if that's the new definition of catholic.

[stargirl3:16]

umm, last I checked, it wasn't...

[toledo_jesus]

actually, can someone explain to me why this "tongues" business isn't a fake? I have seen nothing to make me believe it is from the Holy SPirit. Actually, I've never even seen it. from the descriptions, I don't know if I want to.

[stargirl3:16]

I don't know, I haven't seen it either.

All I know is that we should be careful, because they could come from demons.

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='p0lar_bear' date='Sep 9 2005, 09:44 AM']Stop worrying. Yes there is a lot that of spiritual activities aside from the charismatic prayer meetings (which aren't as pervasive as people seem to want to make them appear).

Morning and Evening prayer is prayed in the chapel by two different groups every day. There was also a group that did Night prayer. There is a walking rosary led by one of the households at least once a week. There is 24 hour adoration in the Port and a total of 9 chapels in various places around campus. There is a Regnum Christi group and a Militia Immaculata group. Nearly the entire campus does the Marian consecration (St. Louis de Monfort) every sememster. There is a silent retreat offered every semester (or maybe just every year...I can't remember). Every Friday the Akathistoi (?), a Byzantine Marian prayer, is prayed in the chapel. A group goes to an abortion mill in Pittsburgh to pray and evangelize pretty much every Saturday. There are a number of Bible studies lead by students, faculty, and other associated with the university.
And for the record, I got a LOT more carp for not doing the Marian consecration and not belonging to Regnum Christi than I ever got from charismatics. Do some people involved in the charismatic movement on campus think (and say) that if you are not charismatic you're not Catholic? Yes. They are college students and many of them are new to actually living their faith. Pretty much by definition people like that are stupid and over-zealous. But that is FAR from the majority.

Do people really think that all the bishops, cardinals, and popes that support FUS are so stupid and blind that they have no idea that the charismatic movement is very much a part of campus life? In his nearly yearly visits to campus, do you think Cardinal Arinze never saw any of this? Do you think that then-Cardinal Ratzinger didn't know anything about the charismatic movement when he asked a FUS professor why he'd never been invited to speak at a conference? Do you think that Pope John Paul II was ignorant of how charismatic the university was when he repeatedly referred to it as a great school? What about Cardinal Schonborn? Bishop Wuerl? Archbishop Chaput? Archbishop Burke? Bishop Bruskewitz? I could go on.

If all these holy and learned men can know about the charismatic movement on campus and still consider it one of the best Catholic universities in the world, then maybe phatmass can relax a bit. Maybe you are not charismatic or are uncomfortable with praying that way. But that does not mean that those who are charismatic are any less Catholic or any less orthodox than you. Get over yourself and accept the fact that people have different spiritualities. Just like a charismatic person shouldn't say condemn or look down on people who aren't. People who aren't comfortable with the charismatic movement shouldn't condemn, look down on charismatics. Charismatic spirituality is not fishy, unorthodox, or questionable.[right][snapback]716854[/snapback][/right][/quote]
woh, did we touch a nerve or what? its like u've been holding that in for a long time or somethin.

*nick walks off w/ his tail between his legs..........

[toledo_jesus]

anyone want to answer my question about tongues?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Sep 10 2005, 12:15 AM']actually, can someone explain to me why this "tongues" business isn't a fake?  I have seen nothing to make me believe it is from the Holy SPirit.  Actually, I've never even seen it.  from the descriptions, I don't know if I want to.
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I don't know. I've never seen it except on TV. I've seen some people here mouthing things under their breath during Mass, but I can't assume.

Seems fishy to me, really. The only thing I can think of is...why would God need to gift some people with interpetation if He gifted some people with tongues. I mean, if the tongues were only going to be foreign languages, then it seems that you would use them with those who spoke it, so what's the need for interpretation? I think there may be scriptural room for these "heavenly tongues" but the fact is that most charismatic gatherings don't have an "interpreter" so it seems very fishy.

[Brother Adam]

yea. like most of us converts say, we strongly sense that it is mostly fake.

I've been to the whole charasmatic meetings myself and they always make me really uncomfortable. but while I'm convinced most people who think they can speak in tongues are babbling nonsense, or allowing ungodly spirits to use their bodies (as they claim to have no control), I would never judge any one induvidual person, lest they have a true gift.

Just remember what St. Paul said, if there is no interpreter, speaking in tongues is useless, if not spiritually dangerous.

Edited September 10, 2005 by Brother Adam

[Paladin D]

I've met countless of people who "spoke in tongues". Some (I believe) are legit, while others aren't.

[p0lar_bear]

Since I'm far too lazy to rewrite the discussions on this....I'm just going to quote myself and refer people to a longer thread on the charismatic movement...

The quote is from [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=25004&b=1&st=&p=entry"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...1&st=&p=entry[/url]
[quote]There are threads where I've done my best to explain the charismatic gifts and the phenomena associated with the charismatic movement...so if you want the theological stuff, you can look those up.

Thing is, it wasn't all the theological stuff that convinced me. I know too many people in the movement not to believe in it. I know too many people with prayer tongues who are some of the holiest, humblist, most devoted people I know. These are not people taken to showing off or pretending or even to being fooled or caught up in the emotions. Why do I accept it? Because I've seen it. I've seen it from people with whom it could not be fake.

I don't have any statements or such directly on prayer tongues, but it seems to me that the fact that in all the statements supporting the charismatic movement, the lack of reference is important. One can't have even a minor association with the charismatic movement and not be aware of the prevelance of prayer tongues. The Holy Father, Cardinal Ratzinger, Cardinal Arinze, etc. cannot know enough about the movement to make statements supporting it without knowing about this phenomenon. Yet, when the Holy Father discussed the charismatic gifts, what he warned people about was discernment and obedience. No one has ever said that the movement is good except for the prayer tongues. No one has ever qualified their support in that way. I know it's weak to argue from silence, but I think it is an important point on this...
[/quote]


This is a more involved discussion of the charismatic movment in general.

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=13692&hl=tongues"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...3692&hl=tongues[/url]

[Brother Adam]

[quote]Thing is, it wasn't all the theological stuff that convinced me. I know too many people in the movement not to believe in it.[/quote]

Thing is, there was a reporter who did a documentary on snake handlers and was so drawn in that the theological principles did not matter to him. The emotionalism and the sincerity of those who practiced snake handling got him hook line and sinker and he started handling poisonous snakes believing it was a sign from God if he did not get bit. Emotionalism and sincerity does not make one right. If it did, than Fundamentalist Protestants would be right.

[ofpheritup]

[quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' date='Sep 8 2005, 06:24 PM']I'm trying to take this in a positive way, but I can't help feeling a little offended...

But then the guy says to me, "No reason for any aversion... it's what we'll be doing in Heaven. And hey, it could be a good [b][u]lesson in humility[/u][/b] for you."
 

 

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GO AHEAD AND FEEL OFFENDED,
I AM OFFENDED AND I AM A CHARISMATIC.

He had no right to say that to you.
Your humiliy is just fine.
I AM HOWEVER WONDERING ABOUT HIS.

So what if we'll be doing it in heaven. We'll be busy doing other things.too. I'll be the one baking chocolate chip cookies with no calories. COME SEE ME. :

See, this is why I am a "quiet charismatic" I am tired of "being beaten over the head" with the Holy Spirit told me to tell you.
NOPE, I am "old" not deaf if the HS has something to say to me He knows where to find me. He can speak for Himself.

IF YOU ARE NOT COMFORTABLE GOING.....THEN DON'T GO.
You don't owe this PUTZ anything. Stay home and pray a rosary.

[zwergel88]

I have to say that the charasmatic stuff really freaks me out. For some reason I think that people are just getting caught up in emotion or something. At the very least it is just definately not my style.