Gah!... why?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Sep 9 2005, 09:41 AM']Theology in the classroom is totally orthodox. It's just outside the classroom that gets a little wierd, and only within the context of charasmatic meetings.
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Yes...I've learned tons I didn't know, just in the two weeks of class I've had. Very, very, very good professors...better than at the seminary, better than at the University of Nebraska...

[DeeDee]

Fides, I'm sorry that your experience with the Charismatic group was so poor. Every Charismatic prayer group is different, just like all parishes are different in one way or another. At least that has been my experience. I've been going to a Charismatic prayer group for six years, and nobody has ever acted in a condescending manner. We always try to make new members feel welcome and at home. We are there to praise God in prayer and song. We also have a healing mass every First Friday through the Diocese. There have been many miracles at these masses.

The early church was Charismatic, and yes, there were saints who were Charismatic, and Pope John Paul II was very enthusiastic about the Charismatic movement. I hope your unpleasant experience won't keep you from exploring this further, perhaps at another parish.

[Nicole8223]

I've met quite a few charismatics that think that they have now found the truth and everyone else is lacking....it's a shame, because it makes a bad name for all those who are charismatic. I consider myself open to the holy spirit....I've spoken in tongues and gone to prayer meetings, but I also have a very contemplative side. I think the Lord leads me through different areas of my faith at different times. Right now, I am very distant from charismatic, but I know its not a bad thing. It's so frustrating when people get the attitude that they can teach the rest of the world how to be.

Anyway, sorry about your experience...

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='DeeDee' date='Sep 9 2005, 12:43 PM']Fides, I'm sorry that your experience with the Charismatic group was so poor. Every Charismatic prayer group is different, just like all parishes are different in one way or another. At least that has been my experience. I've been going to a Charismatic prayer group for six years, and nobody has ever acted in a condescending manner. We always try to make new members feel welcome and at home. We are there to praise God in prayer and song. We also have a healing mass every First Friday through the Diocese. There have been many miracles at these masses.

The early church was Charismatic, and yes, there were saints who were Charismatic,  and Pope John Paul II was very enthusiastic about the Charismatic movement. I hope your unpleasant experience won't keep you from exploring this further, perhaps at another parish.
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Of course, a true movement from God will inspire all the members of that movement to adhere to the teachings of the Church.

Which saints were charismatic?

[DeeDee]

Oh, I forgot to add. . . . Charismatic prayer is NOT an exalted form of prayer any more than devotional prayer, or praying the Bible or anything else. It is simply another form of prayer. All prayer is pleasing to God. There are those who think that praying in tongues is a high gift, but all gifts of the Holy Spirit are for the uplifting of the CHURCH not the individual. Pride slips in there in an unpleasant way, and people need to be reminded that pride is an obstacle to the action of the Holy Spirit.

I wish you all could come to our prayer group. I think you would like it. Sometimes it lasts for a two or three hours, as does the healing mass! So rest up!

[son_of_angels]

I recall nearly every saint being charismatic in the true sense of the word.

St. Pio was definitely charismatic, though he didn't need holy rollin' to prove it.

[AfroNova No Limit Soldier]

You go Polar Bear.

Yes, I concur with Son of Angels. St. Pio was definitely charismatic - his Masses lasted for HOURS. My husband and I made a pilgrimage to San Giovanni Rotundo this summer. Beautiful place.

I used to be involved in the Charismatic movement, but I have become more of a traditionalist, preferring Novus Ordo & Gregorian Chant. When I watch the Pope celebrating Mass, that's how I want to worship!

There are some Charismatics who have a "holier-than-thou" attitude, and there are even some priests who have broken off from the Church to start their own Catholic Charismatic church.

However, the same can be said for "holier-than-thou" ultra-traditionalists who think the Novus Ordo is invalid. And I have met MANY more schismatics who "think the Pope is crazy," and who, because of their vast knowledge of the Word (Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, Magisterium), think that they are holier than us in the Latin Rite who attend mass in - dare I say it - ENGLISH!

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Sep 8 2005, 07:38 PM']yuck charasmatic...

i wouldn't go if i were you.

you don't have to worship like a protestant.

sorry if this offends anyone

but this is how i feel about charasmatic catholcism.
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Not all Protestants are that charasmatic. It was amazing just how similar the Catholic mass at my old college was compared to the services at my old Lutheran church. But some charasmatic protestants do seem a bit wacked at least theologically like those who think that if you have the Holy Spirit in you, you must be able to speak in tongues as a prayer language which would be different than the other gift of speaking in tongues.

Edited September 9, 2005 by Light and Truth

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='son_of_angels' date='Sep 9 2005, 01:24 PM']I recall nearly every saint being charismatic in the true sense of the word.

St. Pio was definitely charismatic, though he didn't need holy rollin' to prove it.
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Well, I think we all know which connotation I'm using.

[son_of_angels]

What I'm saying is a.) don't discourage anyone who experiences the Holy Spirit, unless it leads to heresy, and b.) if you go to a "charismatic" service, don't think that what you are seeing is the only form of the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" and such that Charismatics often tout it as.

I know Charismatic Catholics that are ultra-orthodox, which is awesome because their faith is enlivened by real experience with God. Of course, the forms they mention are not the only tangible ways to experience God, but whatever.

I also know Charismatic Catholics that use such Pentecostal theological terms that, one might think, they don't understand how integrally different Pentecostal and Catholic theology really is. God doesn't work the way Pentecostals want him to work, period. Saying that he does is only a guide to heresy.

[scardella]

When you're young in the faith (I'm using this term loosely...), you tend to think that the way you were introduced to a lively faith is THE way to express/practice your faith. This was true for me, for a while.

I've been picking myself up and carrying the Cross for about 8 years. I've got times when I'm charismatic and times I'm contemplative. Different people have different ways of expressing the faith, but it's still one faith. If you're a strict non-charismatic, that's ok. If you're a strict charismatic, that's ok. If you're somewhere in between, that's ok. [b]What matters is orthodoxy and orthopraxis.[/b]

I can attribute my major conversion to the charismatic movement. I can attribute a deepening of my faith to various charismatic events. I can attribute other parts of my faith rendered by contemplation. I can attribute some things to service work. [b]I can attribute it all to the Grace of God.[/b]

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='son_of_angels' date='Sep 9 2005, 04:42 PM']What I'm saying is a.) don't discourage anyone who experiences the Holy Spirit, unless it leads to heresy, and b.) if you go to a "charismatic" service, don't think that what you are seeing is the only form of the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" and such that Charismatics often tout it as.

I know Charismatic Catholics that are ultra-orthodox, which is awesome because their faith is enlivened by real experience with God.  Of course, the forms they mention are not the only tangible ways to experience God, but whatever.

I also know Charismatic Catholics that use such Pentecostal theological terms that, one might think, they don't understand how integrally different Pentecostal and Catholic theology really is.  God doesn't work the way Pentecostals want him to work, period.  Saying that he does is only a guide to heresy.
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I agree with this. As I said, I know charismatics who are completely faithful and I believe in them.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

I wasn't meaning that all charismatic Catholics are bad/off or whatever... it just that my experience with them (because I'm not charismatic) is never good.

Though the meeting I went to was alright (still not entirely my thing), I'm still a bit offended by what the kid said--his response immediately brought to mind the "relationship with the Holy Spirit" insult I received at FUS. And that, quite frankly has been the norm of my experience.

Are there charismatic Catholics who are great and wonderful people who could care less whether the Catholic they are praying with is charismatic or more traditional in their personal prayer style? Yes. But it seems they are few and far between.

I don't want to debate charismaticism (is that a word?) and traditionalism (not SSPX/schismatic traditionalism...) whenever I go to a Catholic thing... I just want to have some solidly Catholic friends, who could care less if my personal prayer is more contemplative than outwardly charismatic.

[Paladin D]

The charismatic movement is a good thing, it's a way to worship God, it's not superior or inferior to another form of worship. I don't consider myself a charismatic, but at times I do get in the mood.

Abuses happen everywhere, it's an unfortunate reality in life, but we should keep this in mind.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' date='Sep 9 2005, 07:58 PM']I don't want to debate charismaticism (is that a word?) and traditionalism (not SSPX/schismatic traditionalism...) whenever I go to a Catholic thing... I just want to have some solidly Catholic friends, who could care less if my personal prayer is more contemplative than outwardly charismatic.
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I think that the charismatic movement is more missionary, as Vatican II tried to make the Church's action in the world more missionary...and contemplative prayer is more based in staying put in silent prayer.

I think that Pope John Paul found a working synthesis. He didn't go out and raise his arms up and pray in tongues, nor was he always in quiet prayer. He prayed contemplatively in the world...he contemplated the world as he was a missionary to it.