True Life in God

[annabelle87]

What do you all think of this...
[url="http://www.tlig.org/"]http://www.tlig.org/[/url]

[Dreamweaver]

[quote name='annabelle87' date='Sep 5 2005, 11:32 AM']What do you all think of this...
[url="http://www.tlig.org/"]http://www.tlig.org/[/url]
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[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFRYDN2.HTM"]A press release[/url] on Vassula Ryden from the Congregration for the Doctrine of the Faith. I tend to be skeptical of all apparitions/revelations until they have the Vatican's stamp of approval.

[journeyman]

while I found nothing more recent than 1995 on the Vatican website, the tlig website presents ongoing current (2004) communications between the CDF and Ryden . . .

personal revelation doesn't have to enter into the "faith" equation . . . just reading her responses to the CDF questions suggests a devout and well meaning woman . . . who at times is as perplexed about her choice as messenger as we might be if one of us were so chosen.

it is interesting that one of the crosses she is bearing as a Greek Orthodox is her plea for reconciliation with Rome

[annabelle87]

[quote name='Dreamweaver' date='Sep 5 2005, 01:19 PM'][url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFRYDN2.HTM"]A press release[/url] on Vassula Ryden from the Congregration for the Doctrine of the Faith. I tend to be skeptical of all apparitions/revelations until they have the Vatican's stamp of approval.
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I understand completely. I also tend to be wary of things of this nature, as we all should be. Personally though, having carefully studied the messages and done some research I find myself less and less so. I'm no expert, and of course it's up to the Church to make the final judgment. But, in the words of Pope Urban VIII, [i] "In cases which concern private revelations, it is better to believe than not to believe, for, if you believe, and it is proven true, you will be happy that you have believed, because our Holy Mother asked it. If you believe, and it should be proven false, you will receive all blessings as if it had been true, because you believed it to be true." [/i] (Pope Urban VIII, 1623-44)

Since the notification you provided a link for, some modifications have been made on the CDF's position towards TLIG: [url="http://www.tlig.org/cdf2.html"]Modifications by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith on the situation concerning True Life in God[/url]

The following is from a 1999 interview with Cardinal Ratzinger:

"This last question could be a little embarrassing. It regards a contemporary prophetic figure - the Greek Orthodox Vassula Ryden. She is considered by many faithful, and by many theologians, priests and bishops of the Catholic Church to be a messenger of Christ. Her messages, which have been translated into 34 languages since 1991, are known throughout the world. The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has, however, declared negative on the issue. The 1995 Notification on the obscure points as well as the positive aspects of her writings was interpreted by some commentators as a condemnation. Is that the case?

RATZINGER: You have touched on a very problematical issue. No, the Notification is a warning, not a condemnation. From the strictly procedural point of view, no person may be condemned without a trial and without being given the opportunity to air their views first. What we say is that there are many things which are not clear. There are some debateable apocalytpic elements and ecclesiological aspects which are not clear. Her writings contain many good things but the grain and the chaff are mixed up. That is why we invited Catholic faithful to view it all with a prudent eye and to measure it by the yardstick of the constant faith of the Church.

Is the procedure to clarify the question continuing?

RATZINGER: Yes, and during the clarification process the faithful must be prudent, maintaining a discerning attitude. There is no doubt that there is an evolution in the writings which does not yet seem to have concluded. We must remember that being able to set oneself up as the word and image of interior contact with God, even in the case of authentic mysticism, always depends on the possibilities of the human soul and its limitations. Unlimited trust should only be placed in the real Word of the Revelation that we encounter in the faith transmitted by the Church."

Cardinal Ratzinger has also said, "You may continue to promote her writings, but always with discernment."

[url="http://www.tlig.org/ratz.html"]http://www.tlig.org/ratz.html[/url]

[philothea]

[quote name='annabelle87' date='Sep 5 2005, 02:36 PM']I understand completely. I also tend to be wary of things of this nature, as we all should be. Personally though, having carefully studied the messages and done some research I find myself less and less so. I'm no expert, and of course it's up to the Church to make the final judgment. But, in the words of Pope Urban VIII, [i] "In cases which concern private revelations, it is better to believe than not to believe, for, if you believe, and it is proven true, you will be happy that you have believed, because our Holy Mother asked it. If you believe, and it should be proven false, you will receive all blessings as if it had been true, because you believed it to be true." [/i] (Pope Urban VIII, 1623-44)
[/quote]
I have never found a credible source for this quote. I would like to know the context before deciding whether it applies.

[quote name='annabelle87' date='Sep 5 2005, 02:36 PM']Since the notification you provided a link for, some modifications have been made on the CDF's position towards TLIG: [url="http://www.tlig.org/cdf2.html"]Modifications by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith on the situation concerning True Life in God[/url]

The following is from a 1999 interview with Cardinal Ratzinger:
[url="http://www.tlig.org/ratz.html"]http://www.tlig.org/ratz.html[/url]
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(snipped interview)

I can only find this interview on the tlig.org site. However, I easily found at least half a dozen condemnations on orthodox sites of Ms. Ryden's messages, written by various bishops and the CDF.

As the woman is not Catholic, I don't know why would the Church have a stance except its current one -- to tell people that her words should not be considered as coming from God, only as an individual's inspirational writing.

[Socrates]

It's been a while, but If I'm not confusing her with someone, I've read some scary things about that woman. She says some really weird stuff, and much of the paranormal phenomena surrounding her has more in common with that associated with demonic activity than with approved revelations.

[philothea]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Sep 7 2005, 11:32 PM']It's been a while, but If I'm not confusing her with someone, I've read some scary things about that woman.  She says some really weird stuff, and much of the paranormal phenomena surrounding her has more in common with that associated with demonic activity than with approved revelations.
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I haven't looked into her all that much. When I saw some stuff about all religions being equal I had heard enough.

Of course, it's always possible I'm remembering someone else -- but I did just recently look up the Vatican documents, which is sufficient for me.

[Socrates]

[quote name='annabelle87' date='Sep 5 2005, 02:36 PM']But, in the words of Pope Urban VIII, [i] "In cases which concern private revelations, it is better to believe than not to believe, for, if you believe, and it is proven true, you will be happy that you have believed, because our Holy Mother asked it. If you believe, and it should be proven false, you will receive all blessings as if it had been true, because you believed it to be true." [/i] (Pope Urban VIII, 1623-44)
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This refers to approved revelations. It would be absurd (and dangerous) to beleive every single thing anybody claims to be a revelation from God. That is absurd.

[Didacus]

My wife brougt to my attention that Vassula will be coming to Cochrane (a small town in my corner of the world). ITs a big thing around here.

Has there been any developments with her communications with Rome? Since Cardinal Ratzinger has become Papa Ben?

I would like to know more about her if me and my little famly (including my main chick... er wife) decides to pay her a visit.

[Budge]

I warned people about her acouple years ago.

I believe she is a false prophet, she has promoted the United Nations and one world religion.


[url="http://www.tlig.org/en/interreligious/dharmarjika/"]VASSULA"S PROMOTION OF THE ONE WORLD RELIGION[/url]

[Didacus]

Well Budge, glad to know I'm as much on your radar as you are on mine.

But let's change subject for just one second shall we?

The person who is just as interested in her as myself is my wife, and she is the one who brougt her to my attention. She has questions of her own, and I thought it might be best that she express herself directly to the group.

Since a couple of days now guess what? I have internet at home! (I also finally have a phone and TV, now what has brougt me to such an end is aside the discussion, lets just say-I caved for reasons that are mine own. Without going into my sock size now... lets just get back)

Sooooo... my chick, my main 'squeeze', the woman I love, my wife whom I call Poupee... HERE SHE IS!!!
(pssstt.... Poupee... that was your queu...)

[Guest Poupee]

Hello everybody,

Well I am really curious about her. Im not saying shes lying but im not sure that I do believe her either....I guess I need to know more before judging her.....

And I'm not the type of person who judges a subject or something without scrutinizing it first (out of the blue or something).

[corban711]

I think this is another apparition where the Church has spoken definitively, yet people who want to promote the message disregard the negative decision either because they don't like it or they have not been told what the Church has actually said.

[quote]NOTIFICATION ON VASSULA RYDEN (6 October 1995)
Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Many bishops, priests, religious and lay people have sought an authoritative judgement from this Congregation on the activity of Mrs. Vassula Ryden, a Greek Orthodox residing in Switzerland, who in speech and in writing is spreading in Catholic circles throughout the world messages attributed to alleged heavenly revelations.
A calm, attentive examination of the entire question, undertaken by this Congregation in order to "test the spirits to see whether they are of God" (cf. 1 Jn 4:1), has brought out-in addition to positive aspects - a number of basic elements that must be considered negative in the light of Catholic doctrine.

In addition to pointing out the suspect nature of the ways in which these alleged revelations have occurred, it is necessary to underscore several doctrinal errors they contain.

Among other things, ambiguous language is used in speaking of the Persons of the Holy Trinity, to the point of confusing the specific names and functions of the Divine Persons. These alleged revelations predict an imminent period when the Antichrist will prevail in the Church. In millenarian style, it is prophesied that God is going to make a final glorious intervention which will initiate on earth, even before Christ's definitive coming, an era of peace and universal prosperity. Furthermore, the proximate arrival is foretold of a Church which would be a kind of pan-Christian community, contrary to Catholic doctrine.

The fact that the aforementioned errors no longer appear in Ryden's later writings is a sign that the alleged "heavenly messages" are merely the result of private meditations.

Moreover, by habitually sharing in the sacraments of the Catholic Church even though she is Greek Orthodox, Mrs. Ryden is causing considerable surprise in various circles of the Catholic Church. She appears to be putting herself above all ecclesiastical jurisdiction and every canonical norm, and in effect, is creating an ecumenical disorder that irritates many authorities, ministers and faithful of her own Church, as she puts herself outside the ecclesiastical discipline of the latter.

Given the negative effect of Vassula Ryden's activities, despite some positive aspects, this Congregation requests the intervention of the Bishops so that their faithful may be suitably informed and that no opportunity may be provided in their Dioceses for the dissemination of her ideas. Lastly, the Congregation invites all the faithful not to regard Mrs. Vassula Ryden's writings and speeches as supernatural and to preserve the purity of the faith that the Lord has entrusted to the Church.

Vatican City, 6 October 1995.

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Taken from:
L'Osservatore Romano
Weekly Edition in English
25 October 1995, 12.
L'Osservatore Romano is the newspaper of the Holy See.
The Weekly Edition in English is published for the US by:

The Cathedral Foundation
L'Osservatore Romano English Edition
P.O. Box 777
Baltimore, MD 21201
Subscriptions: (410) 547-5380

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Provided Courtesy of:
Eternal Word Television Network
5817 Old Leeds Road
Irondale, AL 35210
www.ewtn.com[/quote]



In order to clarify that last statement...this was also released about a year later....

[quote]NOTIFICATION ON VASSULA RYDEN (Dec 1996)
Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
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(This clarification of its original Notification on Vassula Ryden was released to the Press in December 1996)
I. The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has received various questions about the value and authority of its Notification of 6 October 1995, published in L'Osservatore Romano on Monday/Tuesday, 23/24 October 1995, p. 2 (L'Osservatore Romano English edition, 25 October 1995, p. 12), regarding the writings and messages of Mrs. Vassula Ryden attributed to alleged revelations and disseminated in Catholic circles throughout the world.

In this regard, the Congregation wishes to state:

1) The Notification addressed to the Pastors and faithful of the Catholic Church retains all its force. It was approved by the competent authorities and will be published in Acta Apostolicae Sedis, the official organ of the Holy See, with the signatures of the Prefect and the Secretary of the Congregation. [*]

2) Regarding the reports circulated by some news media concerning a restrictive interpretation of this Notification, given by His Eminence the Cardinal Prefect in a private conversation with a group of people to whom he granted an audience in Guadalajara, Mexico, on 10 May 1996, the same Cardinal Prefect wishes to state:

a) as he said, the faithful are not to regard the messages of Vassula Ryden as divine revelations, but only as her personal meditations;

b) these meditations, as the Notification explained, include, along with positive aspects, elements that are negative in the light of Catholic doctrine;

c) therefore, Pastors and the faithful are asked to exercise serious spiritual discernment in this matter and to preserve the purity of the faith, morals and spiritual life, not by relying on alleged revelations but by following the revealed Word of God and the directives of the Church's Magisterium.

II. Regarding the circulation of texts of alleged private revelations, the Congregation states:

1) The interpretation given by some individuals to a Decision approved by Paul VI on 14 October 1966 and promulgated on 15 November of that year, in virtue of which writings and messages resulting from alleged revelations could be freely circulated in the Church, is absolutely groundless. This decision actually referred to the "Abolition of the Index of Forbidden Books", and determined that - after the relevant censures were lifted-the moral obligation still remained of not circulating or reading those writings which endanger faith and morals.

2) It should be recalled however that with regard to the circulation of texts of alleged private revelations, canon 823 §1 of the current Code remains in force: "the Pastors of the Church have the ... right to demand that writings to be published by the Christian faithful which touch upon faith or morals be submitted to their judgement".

3) Alleged supernatural revelations and writings concerning them are submitted in first instance to the judgement of the diocesan Bishop, and, in particular cases, to the judgement of the Episcopal Conference and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.


*[EWTN: The notification was subsequently published in Acta Apostolicae Sedis [Acts of the Apostolic See] - AAS, vol. LXXXVIII, N. 12 (5 December 1996), 956-957.]

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Taken from:
L'Osservatore Romano
Weekly Edition in English
4 December 1996, 12
L'Osservatore Romano is the newspaper of the Holy See.
The Weekly Edition in English is published for the US by:

The Cathedral Foundation
L'Osservatore Romano English Edition
P.O. Box 777
Baltimore, MD 21201
Subscriptions: (410) 547-5380

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Provided Courtesy of:
Eternal Word Television Network
5817 Old Leeds Road
Irondale, AL 35210
www.ewtn.com[/quote]

it is very important to note that it clearly says the original position and statement remains IN FORCE...it hasn't been changed at all

[corban711]

you can find an article written on the subject of her messages by Fr. Mitch Pacwa S.J. at this site...

[url="http://www.touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=08-01-017-f"]http://www.touchstonemag.com/archives/arti...?id=08-01-017-f[/url]