Men who act like women, Women, who act like men.

[philothea]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Sep 4 2005, 05:34 PM']The psychological and spiritual in human beings are closely related, and can't always be separated into independent categories.  Psychology effects spirituality and vice versa.

I agree, effeminate behavior in men and masculine behavior in women, including but not limited to homosexuality, is a psychological and spiritual problem, whatever its roots are (usually psychological).
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Like Paladin asked, what are you considering to be masculine or feminine behaviors?

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='Norseman82' date='Sep 4 2005, 10:25 AM']Sam,

What I find most humorous about your response is that you're not even old enough to drive!!!

(at least in most states...)
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I too found this humorous....hahahah

i can drive! in what state are 14 year olds allowed to drive/?

[Ora et Labora]

i can drive! in what state are 14 year olds allowed to drive/?
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[/quote]

Well, look whose back on...hi Sam! When did this happen?

Kristina

[Socrates]

[quote name='philothea' date='Sep 4 2005, 05:42 PM']Like Paladin asked, what are you considering to be masculine or feminine behaviors?
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I was going to get to that.

In these debates, I think people try to complicate the obvious. Most people recognize "masculine" or "feminine" when they see it.

What I am talking about as a problem is balantly effeminate behavior/manners in men (or masculine behavior in women).

This is not the same as bringing in stereotypical behaviors to confuse the issue. One does not have to be an ultra-macho, six-pack swilling-in-front-the-football-game, wife-beating slob in order to be a "real man." And women do not all have to be dainty weaklings who spend all their time shopping for clothes and visiting the hair-dresser.

Manly: Strong (especially in character), assertive, chivalrous (respects and protects those weaker than himself), courageous, hard-working, exercises gentle authority.

Effeminate: homosexuality, feminine walk, gestures, or manner of speaking, wearing feminine dress, jewelry or makeup, softness (avoidance of hard work and difficulty), , excessive love of luxury, excessive fastidiousness about one's dress or appearance, cowardliness

Womanly: Nurturing, loves and cares for others above herself, respects her own feminine beauty, chastity, gently submissive to her man

Masculine: Lesbianism, striving for dominance over men, masculine dress or grooming, disregard for family, vulgarity in speech and behavior

[Colleen]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Sep 4 2005, 05:43 PM']I too found this humorous....hahahah

i can drive! in what state are 14 year olds allowed to drive/?
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South Dakota.

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver's_license#United_States_and_Canada"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver's_...ates_and_Canada[/url]

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Sep 4 2005, 07:23 PM']I was going to get to that.

In these debates, I think people try to complicate the obvious.  Most people recognize "masculine" or "feminine" when they see it. 

What I am talking about as a problem is balantly effeminate behavior/manners in men (or masculine behavior in women). 

This is not the same as bringing in stereotypical behaviors to confuse the issue.  One does not have to be an ultra-macho, six-pack swilling-in-front-the-football-game, wife-beating slob in order to be a "real man."  And women do not all have to be dainty weaklings who spend all their time shopping for clothes and visiting the hair-dresser.

Manly:  Strong (especially in character), assertive, chivalrous (respects and protects those weaker than himself), courageous, hard-working, exercises gentle authority.

Effeminate:  homosexuality, feminine walk, gestures, or manner of speaking, wearing feminine dress, jewelry or makeup, softness (avoidance of hard work and difficulty), , excessive love of luxury, excessive fastidiousness about one's dress or appearance, cowardliness

Womanly:  Nurturing, loves and cares for others above herself, respects her own feminine beauty, chastity, gently submissive to her man

Masculine:  Lesbianism, striving for dominance over men, masculine dress or grooming, disregard for family, vulgarity in speech and behavior
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I think your notions are way too stereotypical. We are all a mixed lot of traits and characteristics.

[Socrates]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Sep 4 2005, 07:26 PM']I think your notions are way too stereotypical.  We are all a mixed lot of traits and characteristics.
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Could you explain more specifically what you have a problem with in my post? I was asked to specify, and I tried to explain/give some examples.

Edited September 5, 2005 by Socrates

[photosynthesis]

Socrates - so chastity is right for women? and it's "masculine" to have vulgar speech? NO one should be speaking in a vulgar manner or being unchaste, regardless of whether they're male or female.

[quote name='Raphael' date='Sep 4 2005, 11:00 AM']A woman, however, will generally do more of the "oh, it'll be okay."  When I go to a woman with a problem, and she starts being like, "okay...let's look at the options," I tend to say, "you know, I've already thought of all the options...I just need a hug."
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is it manly for a guy to ask for a hug?

I don't know... maybe I'm just unfeminine or something, but in problem solving I'm a lot more likely to say "let's look at all the options" and not say "here, have a hug." I'd rather be a journalist than homeschool my kids (after they got old enough to go to school). I'd rather read a book than go shopping. I was one of two women working in my college's IT department last summer. I guess it's not feminine to fix computers. While I have no interest in sports, cars, beer or anything like that, i think women should develop their "feminine genius" and use their minds.

I think if a woman wants to appreciate football, or know how to fix cars, or program computers, than what's wrong with that?

There has to be a line drawn somewhere. I would tend to focus less on the behavior, but on the inherent personality characteristics and tendencies that underlie behavior.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote]Well, look whose back on...hi Sam! smile.gif When did this happen?

Kristina
[/quote]

Hey Kristina!

how have you been. i came back a month ago maybe. i haven't seen you around the phorum. I would PM but now that I am a phishy (i shouldn't be) i can't PM you.

God Bless,

sam

[track2004]

So are you (WK) just saying women ought to stay at home and take care of the family else they are acting against God? Or that men must be the main bread winner? Is wearing pants to masculine, and if so when did it become so because men wore tunics in Jesus time? This idea of masculine and feminine is so subjective. I, a girl, want to be a psychologist. This will probably mean working 40+ hours a week and quite possibly earning more than my husband. The difference between gender and characteristics is immense. Nothing says women have to be feminine and men have to be masculine, they are just social constructions of what it means to be a certain gender.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='track2004' date='Sep 5 2005, 12:33 AM']So are you (WK) just saying women ought to stay at home and take care of the family else they are acting against God?  Or that men must be the main bread winner?  Is wearing pants to masculine, and if so when did it become so because men wore tunics in Jesus time?  This idea of masculine and feminine is so subjective.  I, a girl, want to be a psychologist.  This will probably mean working 40+ hours a week and quite possibly earning more than my husband.  The difference between gender and characteristics is immense.  Nothing says women have to be feminine and men have to be masculine, they are just social constructions of what it means to be a certain gender.
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I agree with you, to a point. The church does not teach that women have to stay at home all the time. Women have a lot to contribute to society. However, it's problematic to argue that gender roles are entirely socially constructed. God created us male and female for a reason, and both are a reflection on who God is. Gender characteristics also stem from biological differences, which were created by God.

[philothea]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Sep 4 2005, 06:23 PM']Manly:  Strong (especially in character), assertive, chivalrous (respects and protects those weaker than himself), courageous, hard-working, exercises gentle authority.

Effeminate:  homosexuality, feminine walk, gestures, or manner of speaking, wearing feminine dress, jewelry or makeup, softness (avoidance of hard work and difficulty), , excessive love of luxury, excessive fastidiousness about one's dress or appearance, cowardliness

Womanly:  Nurturing, loves and cares for others above herself, respects her own feminine beauty, chastity, gently submissive to her man

Masculine:  Lesbianism, striving for dominance over men, masculine dress or grooming, disregard for family, vulgarity in speech and behavior
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Thank you for clarifying.

[White Knight]

[quote name='philothea' date='Sep 4 2005, 05:42 PM']Like Paladin asked, what are you considering to be masculine or feminine behaviors?
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Men who play with dolls and women who Behave too much like men's behavior. Women who smoke cugairs, who dress, and litterally act like men.


[quote name='track2004' date='Sep 4 2005, 10:33 PM']So are you (WK) just saying women ought to stay at home and take care of the family else they are acting against God?  Or that men must be the main bread winner?  Is wearing pants to masculine, and if so when did it become so because men wore tunics in Jesus time?  This idea of masculine and feminine is so subjective.  I, a girl, want to be a psychologist.  This will probably mean working 40+ hours a week and quite possibly earning more than my husband.  The difference between gender and characteristics is immense.  Nothing says women have to be feminine and men have to be masculine, they are just social constructions of what it means to be a certain gender.
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No I'm not saying that its against God, I'm saying Men & Women sould not exchange roles to EXTREME Points. Men sould not act so Girly to the point where they seem Almost homosexual like, and Women sould not act so manly to an extreme point where they seem homosexual. I'm talking about Extremes here, There is a line that Men & Women sould not ever pass, due to their roles that God gave them.

Edited September 5, 2005 by White Knight

[Norseman82]

I like the good ole days when men wore the tattoos and women wore the earrings....

[White Knight]

I have to agree with that Norseman82.