Criticism of Gov't Response

[hierochloe]

There is no manpower shortage with repsect to reponding to the hurricaine aftermath in the Army, Air Force, Guard, FEMA, etc. It was a leadership shortage.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='hierochloe' date='Sep 7 2005, 07:14 PM']There is no manpower shortage with repsect to reponding to the hurricaine aftermath in the Army, Air Force, Guard, FEMA, etc. It was a leadership shortage.
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There is a man power shortage in the regular Army, it is doing a lot more than it used to with many fewer troops than it usedd to, that is why the National Guard is so heavily used here and in Iraq, it is not normal to have N. Guard operating in other States.

[guardsman]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Sep 7 2005, 07:25 PM']There is a man power shortage in the regular Army, it is doing a lot more than it used to with many fewer troops than it usedd to, that is why the National Guard is so heavily used here  and in Iraq, it is not normal to have N. Guard operating in other States.
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I agree, there is a shortage in the regular Army.

But natural disasters are exactly why we have the National Guard.

It is not normal for regular Army to be doing what they are doing in Louisiana. They are actually doing a National Guard mission.

It is not normal for National Guard troops from say, Iowa, to be operating in Louisiana, but this situation is far from normal.

I think they just sent in as many people as they could on short notice. States do share Guard resources quite a bit, though. It's not uncommon.

[Don John of Austria]

Oregon to L.A. is uncommon.

Sharing resourses ( for example my Father in Law was deployed from San Antonio to Iraq with a New York N. A. G. fighter wing, is differant than actually having other States troops deployed on a States soil( which at least here in Texas we would see as offensive , like having foreign troops here) YOu think I'm joking but I assure you British troops would be more likely recieved well in a " magnatory evacuation" here than New York troops--- especially in East Texas.

[guardsman]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Sep 7 2005, 07:46 PM']Oregon to L.A. is uncommon. 

Sharing resourses ( for example my Father in Law was deployed from San Antonio  to Iraq with a New York  N. A. G. fighter wing,  is differant than actually having other States troops deployed on a States soil( which at least here in Texas we would see as offensive , like having foreign troops here)  YOu think I'm joking but I assure you British troops would be more likely recieved well in a " magnatory  evacuation" here than New York troops--- especially in East Texas.
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I heard on the news today that the military will not be involved in any "mandatory evacuations."


PS-How do I get my avatar back?

Edited September 8, 2005 by guardsman

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='guardsman' date='Sep 7 2005, 07:50 PM']I heard on the news today that the military will not be involved in any "mandatory evacuations."
PS-How do I get my avatar back?
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we' ll see that wasn't what they where reporting this morning, but frankly I think that is a really good Idea, let the Civilian Cops do that, much less likly to get into a shooting match.




Answer to PS---- I don't know kilroy did it for me , I'll ask her

[Winchester]

The first failure resides in state and local inaction. The mayor and the governor underestimated the storm. Had they begun swift and comprehensive forced evacuations and the governor activated the national guard before the storm strike, perhaps something could have been done.

Getting resources underway to sustain a rescue operation takes time. Until all is coordinated, you cannot move. It is easy to armchair quarterback a disaster, but in the trenches, you have to deal with an incredible amount of logistics. Just try organizing a rescue of 200 people from a highrise sometime and you'll get an idea.

This was and continues to be an unprecedented disaster. We will learn from it. The fact is, you don't do these things right the first time around, no matter the planning.

Actually, a mayor, through a well organized Emergency Management Office (local, not federal) works in conjunction with all entities, and the school buses as well as any public buses could have been used. The plan had to be in place. The mayor failed to plan. The city was a bowl, they knew this was going to happen, and they did not prepare.

Span of Control:
An acceptable span of control in an emergency situation is 3-5 people. If you cannot manage the rescuers (control them and use them effectively and safely) you cannot put them into action. While an emergency scene is organized chaos, total chaos gets rescuers killed. Summary "pelican" is ignorant. Experience does not assure effective rescue. Plenty od experienced freelancers get into trouble and die because resources are not inplace to rescue them.

I can guarantee mistakes were made. They always happen, even when it's a routine incident. This is a massive, multi-agency operation attempting what has not been attempted before. People who have never organized a rescue effort on any scale would do well to take Dan Rather and all other journalists with a grain of salt. Calls for investigations are stupid. All incidents like this are turned inside out because the guys involved love their beaver dam jobs and want to help people. There will be "post-mortems" as we call them in HFD.

I garon-tee

[hierochloe]

[quote name='Winchester' date='Sep 7 2005, 09:31 PM']All incidents like this are turned inside out because the guys involved love their beaver dam jobs and want to help people.
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Quoted for truth.

[guardsman]

I found an avatar. Let's see if it works.



Cool! It worked.

Edited September 8, 2005 by guardsman

[Winchester]

This has kind of fallen back, thought I'd bump it up.

[Winchester]

Thought I'd add that what the media reports and what is actually going on aren't always (or even often) the same thing.

[hierochloe]

My brother was assisting in waterway reconstruction near New Orleans. Some of the SAR crews from his Coast Guard installation participated in the initial as well as ongoing rescue efforts in the city itself. I get the distinct impression from the stories he brought back that the media was not exaggerating on all counts, particularly the armed bandits, gunfire, and all-around chaos.

[Winchester]

One of my buddies reports back that's accurate too. Mainly, I'm referring to the Bush and FEMA bashing.
In fact, an EMT got shot in the leg.

I'd just like people to sit back and look at the facts instead of pushing an agenda. Heck, I'm trying to be reserved about commenting on Louisiana's spineless jellyfish of a governor and screaming nincompoop of a mayor.
Trying, that is.

[hierochloe]

[quote name='Winchester' date='Sep 13 2005, 05:59 PM']I'd just like people to sit back and look at the facts instead of pushing an agenda. Heck, I'm trying to be reserved about commenting on Louisiana's spineless jellyfish of a governor and screaming nincompoop of a mayor.
Trying, that is.
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Lol I hear that. Agendas 4tl tbh. I think everyone is busted on this one anyways.

[hierochloe]

[quote name='Winchester' date='Sep 13 2005, 05:59 PM']In fact, an EMT got shot in the leg.
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Ya know, I don't get worked up about much at all but things like this make me foam at the mouth...