Criticism of Gov't Response

[philothea]

[url="http://respectfulofotters.blogspot.com/2005_09_01_respectfulofotters_archive.html#112575539915717117"]Respectful of Otters[/url] has the most eloquent criticism.

I don't usually have any TV to watch, and without seeing humans moving and speaking and crying, the plight of those suffering in NO is hardly real. But, I have been stuck for the last few days at my mother-in-laws, with TVs aplenty. I have watched several NBC news shows, as well as Nightline.

I cannot imagine why, for example, people are waiting on the the highway (I-10?) underpass to be picked up for DAYS, when long lines of buses are waiting just 15 miles down clear road, doing nothing.

The US military can be ANYWHERE you tell them to be within 24 hours, with any amount of supplies that might be needed. On Thursday my husband quipped, "Why don't we just delcare war on New Orleans? Then we could get some help in there." Obviously, no one told the military to go to New Orleans until Friday. Who is it again that the power to command the military?

It was utterly absurd for the director of FEMA to say, on live TV, that he hadn't known about the people in the convention center. I don't think it was political bias that made Ted Koppel respond, "Why didn't you watch our show? We've had reporters in there for days."

There are many, non-political reasons for criticising Bush's handling of this crisis. And he's just asking for more when his solution to the gas price problem is to give crude oil from the federal emergency reserve to some refineries (the problem is that there are [i]refineries[/i] down, not a lack of crude oil, duh), and to waive the EPA standards. (How does that help except, uh, um, oh yeah. It's more profitable for the refineries.)

Of course Haliburton was just given the contract to rebuild New Orleans. Woo hoo.

Edited September 4, 2005 by philothea

[dspen2005]

the state officials in La are placing enormous blame on the feds... me, being a republican, have to shift the primary blame upon the state and local officials. the time to complain about the levees should have been years ago. it ought to have been the initiative of the officials at the state and local level to solve the problem of the levees -- reinforce the old ones, build new ones. they are closer to the problem than the fed govt is..... it is ultimately a question of whether or not the state of La can efficiently and maturely run itself, or must it rely on the hand of the big government to care for it?

[hierochloe]

If there is one truth that will come out of this catastrophe, it will be that there is blame to go around everywhere. There were multiple bills before the federal gov't for funding in levie improvements that were denied. Yes, help should have made it into that city within 48 en masse instead of the blooper operation that ensued. What happened up to and following that hurricaine is a disgrace and there is blame to go all around. The best thing we can do at this point is pray pray pray, donate everything we can, money, supplies, manhours. We need to come together for those poor folks.

[curtins]

Let me elaborate a bit on dspen's comments:

The Local and State officials of Louisiana are trying to cover their lack of leadership and management of the situation by blaming it on bush and the feds. Compare the Mayor of New Orleans to Rudy Julliani after 9/11. Julliani wasn't nowhere to be seen, making inane press releases declaring an "S.O.S". He became a leader. He took responsibility. He got the job done. He organized local relief efforts until fedral help arrived. The Mayor of New Orleans did no such thing. The Louisiana governor didnt even call out the national guard right away. And then of course you have the Congressional Black Caucus and idiots like Kanye West making it a racial matter, blaming the white man, frankly because their own people failed to organize and start relief efforts and self help. Kanye, instead of making accusations that the president doesn't care about black people, how about condeming the looting, violence, raping, shootings, and terrorizing of relief workers by these thugs down there. This is my theory: All these thugs are all around 20 all are sorta "gangsta" listen to gangsta rap and all the carp that gangsta rap contains and as soon as law and order ceases to exist- they take advantage of the situation and all the junk these rappers have been telling them via their music, they start to act out- raping, stealing, shooting, and killing. Forget it- thats not a theory- thats the facts.

[hierochloe]

The fact is that everyone screwed up and people need help. Those people can't afford for the rest of the country to be swaubbling over who messed up. They need their country to come together and help them. Leave all that other carp for after people are safe.

[philothea]

More.

[url="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/3/171718/0826"]FEMA turns away volunteer resuers[/url]

[quote]On Tuesday afternoon, August 30, Jefferson Parish Sheriff Harry Lee asked for all citizens with boats to come to the aid of Jefferson Parish. A short time later Dwight Landreneau, the head of the La. Depart. of Wildlife and Fisheries, got on television and remarked that his agency had things under control and citizen help was not needed. Apparently, Sheriff Lee did not agree with that assessment and had one of his deputies provide the Lafayette flotillia with an escort into Jefferson Parish.

Sheriff Lee and Senator Gautreaux - 1000 of Louisiana's citizens responded to the public's pleas for help. They were prevented from helping by Dwight Landreneau's agency, the Department of Wildlife and Fisheries which had been taken over by FEMA. When I learned that Charity Hospital has not been evacuated and that no one has been there to attempt a rescue, I became angry.

It was because of this that my friend and I have been trying launch boats both yesterday and today but to no avail. It looks like FINALLY the Governor has just said SCREW FEMA, get those boats in the water and help save my citizens.[/quote]
FEMA and Homeland Security have jurisdiction in any disaster (though they are supposed to be coordinated by the "first agency who responds" -- but in a hurricane who is that?) Anyway, the only way the mayor and/or governor can do anything is with the permission of FEMA.

These problems are partly because of the new Homeland Defense regulations.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='philothea' date='Sep 3 2005, 11:46 PM']More.

[url="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/3/171718/0826"]FEMA turns away volunteer resuers[/url]
FEMA and Homeland Security have jurisdiction in any disaster (though they are supposed to be coordinated by the "first agency who responds" -- but in a hurricane who is that?)  Anyway, the only way the mayor and/or governor can do anything is with the permission of FEMA.

These problems are partly because of the new Homeland Defense regulations.
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[/quote]


Actually that isn't true, the area has to be declared a disaster area first, and legally unless it is an attack the state has to do that first. The Federal government just can't go deploying troops around the country, the states have to ASK for federal aid, it is a basic tenet of Federalism, States rights and all. Further everyone knew the levies were going to break , it was widely brought up in the media here in houston before it happened; it was so well known that the mayor of New Orleans told everyone to leave before the hurrcaine hit, it was a Mandatory Evacuation--- what that means here in the south( where we still have rights and they can't actually make you leave your home) is that the government is telling you you will likely die if you stay and that no one is under any obligation to try and save you if you do. I have no sympathy at at all for the adults traped there-- the elderly who may not have heard the evacuation order, and the children of idiot parents, both of them I have pity on but the adults made their bed---- they can lie in it. 3 or 4 days is not an unreasonable response time for the federal government anyway, it is a disaster guys its suppose to be bad. The governer of L.A. acted promptly on Tuesday to get everyone out, she closed the entire LA school system and sent all of the school buses in the state to LA to pick up the people, the mayor of N.O. threw a little hissy fit that he didn't want school buses he wanted Bush to close greyhound and send them all to N.O. I hate to break this to you guys but it is not the Feds job to rescue you from a disaster that is YOUR JOB, followed by your locality, followed by your State. I wish people would take some personal responsability here. These people where told very bluntly --- if you stay you are likly to die-- the Mayor of N.O. went so far as to say that his hands wouold be clean because he told people to leave agian this was before Katrina even hit. Personally I believe that this is a chastisment sent by God agianst N.O. because of its debauchery and prevelent witchcraft. Of course no one will say things like that anymore because sometime in the 20th century God suddenly stopped destroying those places that offended him---- oh wait that was just liberal clap trap. I have and will continue to do whatever can be done to help the people there as well asthe refugees who are already out, but lets not go blaming the Federal government for it, or even the State government lets lay the blame where it belongs on the feet of those who didn't leave when they where told.

Edited September 4, 2005 by Don John of Austria

[catholicflower]

Don John- I agree with you 95%. I disagree only with the people who did not evacuate. Yes there were people who jsut plain lacked common sense, however there were people there that could not evacuate. They did not have money to get any where, not even money to get a tank of gas. NO and its surrounding areas have some very poor areas and the local governements did not give them any way to evacuate. Yes there were busses, but think about the sheer number of people, you cannot evacuate that many people in one day.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='catholicflower' date='Sep 4 2005, 09:46 AM']Don John- I agree with you 95%. I disagree only with the people who did not evacuate. Yes there were people who jsut plain lacked common sense, however there were people there that could not evacuate. They did not have money to get any where, not even money to get a tank of gas. NO and its surrounding areas have some very poor areas and the local governements did not give them any way to evacuate. Yes there were busses, but think about the sheer number of people, you cannot evacuate that many people in one day.
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I have not heard of a single person who was refused evacuation, no one has even clained it, but frankly whats wrong with your feet, if was good enough transport for jesus, it was effective enough for most of the people on the oragen trail ect. except for the old and disabled there is no reason people couldn't just walk out of the city. That being said no one has said that they where not given a chance to evac, not a single person, they just didn't leave. and there are not that many poor people in N.O. it only had a population of 500 to 600 thousand even if 20% where too poor to get out without walking that isn't but 100,000 people 2000 busloads really not all that many people. At least most of these people chose not to leave, and now they arre suffering for it, I completly respect that they had every right to make that choice, to set there will agianst nature, to try and keep there home, but that was the choice they made, and now this is the consequince of that bad choice. remember I am in the numberone destination for Refugees, I know one, saw her on friday, but noone has claimed that they couldn't evacuate-- on the whole they just didn't really believe it would be this bad.

[jasJis]

For many, many years, here in the counties surrounding the Tampa area, people who need help evacuating can contact the local governemnts and be put on the list way ahead of time. Like NO, Florida knows we get hit often w/ hurricanes. These people get evacuated first and get the first shelters. The Federal Gov. doesn't do this, it's not their job. Lot's of local churches and organizations have evacuation buddy systems set-up. And this is in Tampa, where we don't get direct hits and don't live BELOW sea level. Why was the State of LA and the City of NO so surprised? They regularly get close calls. Look at the hurricanes that have hit the FL panhandle recently. A few degrees West and NO would be slammed. The local government Should have a way to evacuate the poor and they shouldn't wait for the last day to start. We board up and evacuate trailer parks here DAYS before. Shelters are set up and planned way in advance and agreements met. They use public and private schools, sports arenas, warehouses, etc., and designate the support ahead of time. Different charity agencies are lined up to help with food, counseling, etc., ahead of time.

Duh. It's not like a hurricane surprised New Mexico or something.

[philothea]

Yay! Nice to see you posting.
[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Sep 4 2005, 09:30 AM'][quote name='philothea' date='Sep 3 2005, 11:46 PM']
More.

[url="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/3/171718/0826"]FEMA turns away volunteer resuers[/url]
FEMA and Homeland Security have jurisdiction in any disaster (though they are supposed to be coordinated by the "first agency who responds" -- but in a hurricane who is that?)  Anyway, the only way the mayor and/or governor can do anything is with the permission of FEMA.

These problems are partly because of the new Homeland Defense regulations.
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[/quote]
Actually that isn't true, the area has to be declared a disaster area first, and legally unless it is an attack the state has to do that first.
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I believe Lousiana was declared a disaster area before the hurricane even made landfall.

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Sep 4 2005, 09:30 AM']The Federal government just can't go deploying troops around the country, the states have to ASK for federal aid, it is a basic tenet of Federalism,  States rights and all. 
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Indeed. I believe the governor specifically asked for 40,000 federal troops. I'm not sure of the exact timing of the request, but it was early on. (Days before any showed up.)

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Sep 4 2005, 09:30 AM']Further everyone knew the levies were going to break , it was widely brought up in the media here in houston before it happened; it was so well known that the mayor of New Orleans  told everyone to leave before the hurrcaine hit, it was a Mandatory Evacuation--- what that means here in the south( where we still have rights and they can't actually make you leave your home) is that the government is telling you you will likely die if you stay and that no one is under any obligation to try and save you if you do.  I have no sympathy  at at all for the adults traped there-- the elderly who may not have heard the evacuation order, and the children of idiot parents, both of them I have pity on but the adults made their bed---- they can lie in it. 
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No argument here. I think the whole city layout of New Orleans was an incredibly stupid idea, I have thought so for at least a decade, and I have refused to even visit the place (or, for that matter, the whole Gulf area) during hurricane season.

I take disaster preparedness very seriously, and I cannot fathom the minds of people able-bodied who think it's okay to ride out a gigantic hurricane... and then expect rescue

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Sep 4 2005, 09:30 AM'] 3 or 4 days is not an unreasonable response time for the federal government anyway, it is a disaster guys its suppose to be bad.  The governer of L.A.  acted promptly on Tuesday to get everyone out, she closed the entire LA school system and sent all of the school buses in the state to LA to pick up the people, the mayor of N.O. threw a little hissy fit that he didn't want school buses he wanted Bush to close greyhound and send them all to N.O.  I hate to break this to you guys but it is not the Feds job to  rescue you from a disaster that is YOUR JOB, followed by your locality, followed by your State. I wish people would take some personal responsability here. These people where told very bluntly --- if you stay you are likly to die-- the Mayor of N.O. went so far as to say that his hands wouold be clean because he told people to leave  agian this was before Katrina even hit.
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Agreed, but... since a disaster of this magnitude absoutely requires federal-scale help to handle, and once the military went into give supplies, evacuate people, and restore order it toook about 24-hours to get the situation under control (I am estimating from web news sources now, I no longer have TV news), why didn't the person with the authority order troops in do so on Tuesday or even Wednesday rather than Friday?

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Sep 4 2005, 09:30 AM'] Personally I believe that this is a chastisment sent by God agianst N.O. because of its debauchery and prevelent witchcraft. Of course no one will say things like that anymore because sometime in the 20th century God suddenly stopped destroying those places that offended him---- oh wait that was just liberal clap trap.  I have and will continue to do whatever can be done to help the people there as well asthe refugees who are already out, but lets not go blaming the Federal government for it,  or even the State government lets lay the blame where it  belongs on the feet of those who didn't leave when they where told.
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Aww, I've missed you.

(I wondered how New Orleans survived for so long, personally. There must have been some very good people there too.)

[philothea]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Sep 4 2005, 10:00 AM']I have not heard of a single person who was refused evacuation, no one has even clained it,  but frankly whats wrong with your feet, if was good enough transport for jesus, it was effective enough for most of the people on the oragen trail ect. except for the old and disabled there is no reason people couldn't just walk out of the city. That being said no one has said that they where not given a chance to evac, not a single person, they just didn't leave.
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[url="http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1562517,00.html"]Here's a link regarding[/url] some people who were refused evacuation. They're British tourists. They're probably still trapped.

[jasJis]

[quote]why didn't the person with the authority order troops in do so on Tuesday or even Wednesday rather than Friday?
[/quote]umm. The state's Govenor is the one with the authority to order in the National Guard.

[philothea]

[quote name='jasJis' date='Sep 4 2005, 04:48 PM']umm.  The state's Govenor is  the one with the authority to order in the National Guard.
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The guys riding their Hum-Vees through the streets of New Orleans right now are not, I believe, the National Guard.

[hierochloe]

Whoever thinks there aren't that many poor people in NO has either never been there or I dunno what....