Gay/Lesbian Parents

[Semalsia]

[quote]I've shown how the idea that we think simply as many babies should be born as possible is false, and that comparing "gays" not having children to abortion is absurd.[/quote]

And I agree with you.

[quote]If God wanted us to reproduce assexually, He would've made us able to do so.[/quote]

Ever thought that if we can, then maybe He did? Maybe you just can't understand God's great creation that's not so one-dimensional.

[quote]And two people of the same sex cannot produce children, so stop pretending that it's all the same[/quote]

I'm not pretending it's the same, I'm saying that it makes no difference. So it's unnatural! Who cares?

[quote]Maybe you'd think "oh hey, wouldn't that be neat?" but I sure don't see it that way. (Andf neither does the Church).
[/quote]

Isn't that pretty much the whole issue here? This whole thing is about matter of opinion.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Semalsia' date='Sep 12 2005, 08:37 PM']Ever thought that if we can, then maybe He did? Maybe you just can't understand God's great creation that's not so one-dimensional.[/quote]

Well, we can't reproduce assexually (unless we're able to clone - and that certainly doens't happen in nature!)

And being able to do something (such as cloning or whatever you are referring to) doesn't mean it's God's will for us to do so! That's an absurd argument. If we can wipe out life on earth with nuclear weapons, does that mean we should do so?

[quote]I'm not pretending it's the same, I'm saying that it makes no difference. So it's unnatural! Who cares?
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Two people of the same sex [b]cannot[/b] conceive a child. I have yet to hear of a human being (or any other creature for that matter) who literally has two mothers or two fathers! Sodomistic same-sex acts don't create new life, and it's absurd to pretend that they do.

It's God's plan (and that of nature) that love between the sexes and human reproduction should be linked. That's the bottom line.

Edited September 13, 2005 by Socrates

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='Semalsia' date='Sep 12 2005, 07:39 PM']He's still gay. He just doesn't have sex anymore.
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semalsia it be that time.........the time that i ask you what the heck you are doing on this website. I really dont give a rats @$$ about you or your illogical belief system.........dont ever cross me like that again or anybody else. This man is not gay. Why would he try to convince himself that there is a god and he doesnt have to be that way? Wait.......dont even answer that question.......i could care less what you think.

Edited September 13, 2005 by infinitelord1

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='track2004' date='Aug 31 2005, 05:37 PM']I'm not quite sure where I stand on gay parenting.  I think that it is a big responsibility and that the lack of one of the genders as a parental figure is contreversial.  From what I've heard, though not actually seen or read, gay parents are very aware that one gender is missing in the child's life and try to have a male or female (depending on the parents) adult involved in the child's life.  For instance a lesbian couple would have a uncle figure for the child.  The fact that a child may be made fun of is secondary, tirchiary maybe.  Children are made fun of for every thing, it's part of being a child, and I really doubt it could really make the child maladaptive.  As long as they know their parents love them and love each other I would think they'd get over their peers ignorance or bigorty.
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well i am assuming that your decision was to be gay. If it wasnt more power to you. But anyways, to believe in god and to believe homosexuality is OK then you are contradicting yourself. Christians dont just make up "homosexuality is wrong" just to have a reason to put other people down. There is a reason why they say this and Romans 1:22-30 something is enough proof to say it is wrong in the eyes of god.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='Sep 13 2005, 01:14 AM']semalsia it be that time.........the time that i ask you what the heck you are doing on this website. I really dont give a rats @$$ about you or your illogical belief system.........dont ever cross me like that again or anybody else. This man is not gay. Why would he try to convince himself that there is a god and he doesnt have to be that way? Wait.......dont even answer that question.......i could care less what you think.
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dude, let's be civil. everyone is entitled to their own opinion, regardless of whether or not they are right or wrong.

sometimes it's important to remember that people on this message board are real, living, breathing people with feelings, so it's best to express yourself in the most charitable way possible.

[photosynthesis]

this is an interesting subject... i don't think that people with homosexual tendancies should not parent because they would not make good parents. There are a lot of people with same-sex-attraction who are kind, generous, flexible, loving and have many characteristics of a good parent...so I wouldn't say that individuals with SSA are less equipped to be parents.

I don't have a problem per se with homosexual couples adopting. there are so many children out there that need loving parents, so i would rather have a child grow up in a stable home with homosexual parents than in an abusive home with heterosexual parents, or shifted from foster home to foster home.

But artificial insemination/in vitro fetilization/ all that artificial stuff is unnatural and bad... if people want to have children, they should concieve them the natural way.

A lot of people say that gay parenting is bad because it would deprive children of the oppurtunity to have parents/parent-figures of both sexes. I agree with this. However, my parents have always been divorced. I rarely ever got to see my dad, if at all and it is only until now that he has been contacting me and that i have gotten to visit him regularly. I grew up with my mom and my grandma, two maternal figures in my life. there is no one who could ever come close to being a father to me. it just never happened. Can I say I'm messed up because of that?? absolutely. divorce screws children up majorly.

i'm maladjusted, but my parents concieved me the natural way... so the argument of "it's bad for the children" doesn't really work for me.

I guess if i were to have a position on this, it would simply be that homosexuality is sinful. but so is contraception, remarriage, abortion, and a host of other things that heterosexual couples do that mess up their marriages and families.

[track2004]

Actually, I've not made a real decision. I came to the conclusion I'm not straight, but I've not been in a relationship with other girls. Right now, I just know that I think about other girls 'that way' and that makes me not straight. But I wouldn't call it a choice to think that way, it happened, and now I have to accept it and try to live my life in accordance with my beliefs.

[photosynthesis]

i'll start out by saying that i've been there too.

i, for awhile, thought that I was "lesbian" for having some attractions to girls. for awhile, i defined myself based on those feelings and was very involved in the gay/lesbian community, even though the vast majority of sexual feelings i had were not towards members of the same sex.

no one *has* to call themselves gay or straight or bi or whatever. it doesn't have to be such a black+white issue, and people don't have to define themselves based on the feelings they have. All that matters is what God thinks of us and how we choose to live our lives.

I chose to acknowledge that God created men and women to love one another and have children together, and I recognized that homosexuality does not lead to the fulfilment of that purpose of sexuality, so I chose to reject it and live my life in accordance with God's purpose for my life.

I am not going to judge you or say that you are wrong, but there is a way out, and you don't have to label yourself as gay/lesbian/GLBT/bi/whatever because of feelings you have. You don't have to accept them.

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Sep 13 2005, 12:46 AM']i'll start out by saying that i've been there too.

i, for awhile, thought that I was "lesbian" for having some attractions to girls.  for awhile, i defined myself based on those feelings and was very involved in the gay/lesbian community, even though the vast majority of sexual feelings i had were not towards members of the same sex.

no one *has* to call themselves gay or straight or bi or whatever.  it doesn't have to be such a black+white issue, and people don't have to define themselves based on the feelings they have.  All that matters is what God thinks of us and how we choose to live our lives.

I chose to acknowledge that God created men and women to love one another and have children together, and I recognized that homosexuality does not lead to the fulfilment of that purpose of sexuality, so I chose to reject it and live my life in accordance with God's purpose for my life.

I am not going to judge you or say that you are wrong, but there is a way out, and you don't have to label yourself as gay/lesbian/GLBT/bi/whatever because of feelings you have.  You don't have to accept them.
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I also struggle with SSA. I was wondering since you say that "you dont have to accept them" if you know a way to feel OSA.............lol.

[track2004]

I'm not actually labeling myself. When friends ask I try to give them an honest answer, but all in all, I'm just me and I like refusing labels. I don't need a "way out", I have lots of friends, some straight, some not. I just need to live my life the best way I know how to. The feelings I have do need to be accepted though, maybe not in such a way that I will soon be dating a girl, but I need to understand them and know that they are a part of my thinking. Only after I accept and understand them will I be able to grow. I can't just hide this, its not something I can stick in the back of my mind. I can, though, deal with it straight out and grow from it.

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='track2004' date='Sep 13 2005, 12:37 AM']Actually, I've not made a real decision.  I came to the conclusion I'm not straight, but I've not been in a relationship with other girls.  Right now, I just know that I think about other girls 'that way' and that makes me not straight.  But I wouldn't call it a choice to think that way, it happened, and now I have to accept it and try to live my life in accordance with my beliefs.
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well.........i respect that. But i really think you are settin urself up for failure. It seems like everytime i talk about being able to have a normal marriage people dont believe it (those who have SSA). I just dont get it. I really think its just a matter of people not feeling the need. I really dont know what to say about it. I believe its possible, but you have to want it. That is what i want. I cant force everyone else to want it. I guess if they are content with living a celebate lifestyle that is fine. I just dont understand why people feel trapped in it. They really honestly believe that they cant feel any other way. When i feel SSA i experience a high level of anxiety and frustration. I am sure that there have been many others like me that just cram it inside and "accept" it. This is something that i ask god about all the time........."why do i have to feel this way?". So as you can see i feel trapped too. I try to force myself to fell OSA..........trust me it doesnt work. These are the most common things i struggle with everyday. Its a constant fight with my emotions. You know why? because i havent accepted it. I will never give up on my quest to find the truth and move around this issue and not feel this way anymore. Never. Those who call me gay and "he wont accept it"..........well, i will never listen to those people. I think that has a negative effect on people who struggle with SSA. I think they listen to this kind of advice and it persuades them to the lifestyle.

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='track2004' date='Sep 13 2005, 02:08 AM']I'm not actually labeling myself.  When friends ask I try to give them an honest answer, but all in all, I'm just me and I like refusing labels.  I don't need a "way out", I have lots of friends, some straight, some not.  I just need to live my life the best way I know how to.  The feelings I have do need to be accepted though, maybe not in such a way that I will soon be dating a girl, but I need to understand them and know that they are a part of my thinking.  Only after I accept and understand them will I be able to grow.  I can't just hide this, its not something I can stick in the back of my mind.  I can, though, deal with it straight out and grow from it.
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first of all i am a very analytical, critical person. When you say "I just need to live my life the best i know how to" do you mean how god intended you to live your life? Or are you basing it on what you "know"? because there is only one truth to things and only one way to live your life and that is by god. i wanna know what your stance with god is and why you would even consider living such a lifestyle even though the bible says its wrong. This is something i ask my mother everyday. She never gives me an answer. I am sure that you have heard that God created us in his image right? Wouldnt that mean that we are all created heterosexual?

Edited September 13, 2005 by infinitelord1

[Ora et Labora]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Sep 12 2005, 08:04 PM']Have you really tried to follow what I and other Catholics here have been saying?  If you want to debate a topic, it's best to look at what they're actually saying, rather than a skewed version of what they're saying.  I've shown how the idea that we think simply as many babies should be born as possible is false, and that comparing "gays" not having children to abortion is absurd.

Basically, the Catholic view is that making babies should be the result of married love between a man and woman.  Sex between a man and woman is the only natural way of conceiving a child.  Any other way is unnatural.  If God wanted us to reproduce assexually, He would've made us able to do so.
(And two people of the same sex cannot produce children, so stop pretending that it's all the same).

To use some more "extreme" examples, what would you think of human babies being a "consumer product"?  (See the thread in open mic.) Do you think people should clone themselves (if that became scientifically feasible)?  Or what about being able to buy do-it-yourself baby-making kits at the Walmart?

Maybe you'd think  "oh hey, wouldn't that be neat?" but I sure don't see it that way. (Andf neither does the Church).
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I couldnt of said it better, Socrates!

~Kristina

[track2004]

[quote]I am sure that you have heard that God created us in his image right? Wouldnt that mean that we are all created heterosexual?[/quote]

I don't think God has a sexuality. I don't know who'd He'd have sex with.

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='track2004' date='Sep 13 2005, 01:54 PM']I don't think God has a sexuality.  I don't know who'd He'd have sex with.
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your right god doesnt have a sexuality............lol. That is why he created man and woman to represent his feminine and masculine sides. When a man and a woman have sex it is supposed to symbolize what god is............masculinity and femininity combine...........to create (procreation). A man and a man and a woman and a woman is perverted.........it wasnt intended by god. Dont fool yourself here..........the bible says its wrong........to doubt the bible would mean that you are doubting the only basis of morality we have..........you are doubting the accounts of jesus christ........furthermore you are doubting the existence of god. Dont try to make homosexuality OK in your mind........you would be living by the creature.