Muschi Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Greetings and God bless everyone! I hope all will understand what I mean by what I'm about to post and not think me to be "uppity". In reading several of the posts (as a newbie), I have noticed (and it has been brought to my attention) that in our enthusiasm and gratitude to have been led by God's grace to the Catholic Church, that we are sometimes disrespectful to our separated brethren by the way we express ourselves concerning Protestantism. Being a convert myself from Pentecostalism, I think this is a valid concern. You never know WHO is checking this phorum out with a hungry heart and searching, but if you or I offend unnecessarily, we may be guilty of interfering with the grace of God in leading someone home by the way we speak of where they are at now. It's just a thought and I hope no one thinks I'm throwing stones because I would be the first to throw one at myself. - God bless! - Muschi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azriel Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Nope. Its a battle we fight all the time. Thanks for pointing it out again. And, welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 muschi, i think u are totally right. in my short time here i have already acted against charity. thank you for reminding us of what we are truly here to do. pax christi, nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 I'll be honest with you . . . many of the most impatient, are former protestants themselves!!! I personally love it. St. Francis de Sales was incredibly inpatient, and had a horrible temper! You get all of it here, the patient bend over backwards people, and the iron fisted in your facers. My goal, which I usually fail miserably at, is to be patient and kind when I see uncharity. And hopefully by example it will bring peace. Go To It Muschi! And Welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muschi Posted November 26, 2003 Author Share Posted November 26, 2003 Thanks Blaze- I've been guilty of this same sin against charity. Believe me, I have lost my temper a couple of times and gotten a bit "snippety" on a mostly Protestant forum where I also post. I also sometimes just want to give up because they (or most of them) don't even want to HEAR Truth. They just want to continue in their own beliefs being fully persuaded that they are correct due to being raised that way and therefore their beliefs are deeply ingrained, or sometimes they just plain hate the Catholic Church. (They hate what they THINK it is, to paraphrase Arch-bishop Fulton Sheen..........sigh! We need another one of him around today. The Pope can't do ALL the work!) I thank all for welcoming me aboard. I'm glad to be on "friendly turf"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 what about the totally chaotic, like me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muschi Posted December 2, 2003 Author Share Posted December 2, 2003 I don't know how to answer you, Winchester! What do you mean by "totally chaotic"? Even I can relate to that!!! Tis true, I advocate the kindest response possible in dealing with Protestants, but I too, am learning that there comes a point where it may no longer be prophetible to continue dialoguing with them. I'm starting to learn that not all who post questions regarding our faith want to really learn about it but rather bait us. That notwithstanding, I'll still try and do my darndest to remain charitable. That doesn't mean that I don't also lose my patience from time to time as one can see on Faithforum.org. I hope I got that right. I think it's www.faithforum.org. I'm under the oh so obvious name of MichelleJewell. That's my real name. Really original isn't it? - Love to all and God bless!- Muschi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinLuther Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Yeah....sensitivity, respect and being charitable..... Can you respect us enough to call us what we call ourselves - Christians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicAndFanatical Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Can you respect us enough to call us brethren in Christ? At least we as Catholics recognize you as seperated Brethren, you dont even give the same respect to us. And MartinLuther(names says alot) if you was to respect us, your question would of been "Can you respect us enough to call us what we call you - Christians" instead of "Can you respect us enough to call us what we call ourselves - Christians?" so what do you call us Martin? The answer will reflect what type of respect you'll get. sensitivity? Are we dealing with young adults and adults choosing to go against Christs Church or a 2 year old? Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. I do have respect for some protestants in here, but none of you have respected us in the fact that there are tons of unanswered questions that you fail to answer. If you are so set on your ways why not put your ways to the test? If your ways withstand the tests then its a good way, if not then thats your queue to find out what way is best. so that whole sensitivity, respect and being charitable deal is both ways, its not our obligation to take heat and not give heat back. CatholicAndFanatical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 (edited) Yeah....sensitivity, respect and being charitable..... Can you respect us enough to call us what we call ourselves - Christians? Can YOU respect US enough to do the same? Countless times, and in book after anti-Catholic book, we Catholics are told that we are not Christians when, in fact, we were the ONLY Christians for centuries, and the first Protestant appeared only 486 years ago. However, the Church refers to Protestants as "separated brethren." I have NEVER heard a Catholic say that Protestants aren't Christians. We do say that you are lacking the fullness of Christian truth, but not that you are not Christians. Ave Cor Mariae, Likos P.S. Do you have the same devotion to Mary, the Mother of God, that your namesake had? Edited December 5, 2003 by Katholikos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 I would like to respond to C&F's and Likos's posts with a big... WORD! I'm sick and tired of seeing valid questions presented to our Christian brothers and sisters, yet they side-step the issue. Time and time and time and time and time again... that really says a lot, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muschi Posted December 6, 2003 Author Share Posted December 6, 2003 Luther, Katholikos and Paladin have a very valid point. "Sensitivity", or rather, respect IS a two way street. It's only fair since we get so many questions from Protestants that challenge us and we do answer them, you should answer ours too. It's called "communication". I also have had more than my share of baiting, "cut and run" questions fired at me. I also agree with the others in that you should as a common courtesy know that we are Christians too. - Respectfully, Muschi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinLuther Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 (edited) You seem to miss my point. For most of us non Catholic Christians here, our faith is not based on protesting. It is based on Jesus Christ and his teachings. Maybe it's because of my experiences of Northern Ireland but I hate that P word label. As someone else here says, words have meaning, and that word is not an accurate description of our beliefs. Its probably too much to expect you all to stop using that word - but do you see my point? Maybe instead if you guys could just lay off calling us heretics and saying we reject Christ. We are answerable to our brothers, sisters and leaders in our local church, and to God Himself, not to Phatmass. If we have to answer all your questions to be respected, then I guess we aren't going to be respected here. The way my friends and their answers were treated doesnt encourage me to post answers myself. Besides I'm no great communicator, theologian, church historian, bible scholar or debater. And did I say Catholics are not Christian? No I didn't. When you dudes say we reject Christ - isn't that effectively saying that you don't consider us to be Christian? Edited December 6, 2003 by MartinLuther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 We are answerable to our brothers, sisters and leaders in our local church, and to God Himself, not to Phatmass. If we have to answer all your questions to be respected, then I guess we aren't going to be respected here. The way my friends and their answers were treated doesnt encourage me to post answers myself. Besides I'm no great communicator, theologian, church historian, bible scholar or debater. It's not about... "If you can answer all our questions, we'll respect you." ...it's more of like... "If you believe this specific doctrine, why can you not defend it?" ...question. When we bring up very valid points, you guys seem to either... A) Not reply B) Quote someone else and reply to that, thus ignoring the valid point C) Making a smiley or sarcastic remark ...I don't remember all the valid questions that were unanswered, but here are some that I still remember... Question: The Catholic Church was the one that wrote the NT and canonized the Bible. Why is it that you claim for it to be false then? Question: Where in the Bible does it support the sola scriptura theory? Question: Why is it that you read an incomplete version of the Bible? The one with the 7 missing books that Martin Luther got rid of? Not including Revelations, and some other NT books (but were added back in). ...there were many more, but you get the picture. We're just sick and tired of having to deal with people who claim that we're wrong, while we are the ones asking perfectly valid questions and the accusers not answering them. It's a hit and run game. I'm not againt non-Catholic Christians, I'm friends with many of them. But at least they try to answer questions such as these, even humbly admitting with a "I don't know". If you can't take it, then the Debate Table is not for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 You seem to miss my point. For most of us non Catholic Christians here, our faith is not based on protesting. It is based on Jesus Christ and his teachings. Maybe it's because of my experiences of Northern Ireland but I hate that P word label. As someone else here says, words have meaning, and that word is not an accurate description of our beliefs. Its probably too much to expect you all to stop using that word - but do you see my point? Maybe instead if you guys could just lay off calling us heretics and saying we reject Christ. We are answerable to our brothers, sisters and leaders in our local church, and to God Himself, not to Phatmass. If we have to answer all your questions to be respected, then I guess we aren't going to be respected here. The way my friends and their answers were treated doesnt encourage me to post answers myself. Besides I'm no great communicator, theologian, church historian, bible scholar or debater. And did I say Catholics are not Christian? No I didn't. When you dudes say we reject Christ - isn't that effectively saying that you don't consider us to be Christian? Martin this is the debate board, where we like to discuss questions of faith. People come here and ask us questions which we give detailed answers for. But if we ask them a question (tit for tat) we get a smart-ass answer or none at all. We expect debate, not one-sided conversations. People come here and tell us we are wrong, but few are ever able to logically explain why. The most we get is an emotional repsonse - because I feel its right. Reality , however, is NOT based on feelings. Jesus Christ is Reality. He left a Church, not an emotional relationship with a book written after He died. THere are other boards here for pleasant and sweet conversations, this isn't it. If someone comes here and states we are wrong and he is right, we want proof, not emotionalism, not circular reasoning, but logical proofs taken are far as human reason can go. Not everything can be proven, that of course is presumptous, but God gave us hearts and brains, and they are not exclusive or contradictory :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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