Canonization of Joan of Arc

[son_of_angels]

Does anyone else find it at least odd, or perhaps suspect, that the Church canonized someone convicted and burned for heresy and witchcraft?
What does this say about the authority of the church to excommunicate, thus presumably to show someone as being in a state of grave sin? Does this show a weakness in St. Peter's authority over the keys of heaven?
Does excommunication impart grave mortal sin?

[Mikhail]

Well for one, it seems that people horribly persecuted in their life became saints shortly after their deaths. St Francis was horribly persecuted for quite some time by the church.

As for cononization, it seems to go against what Jesus said about not letting the right hand know what the left hand is doing and bringing glory to men for their good deeds. At the worst, we are robbing them of their reward in heaven.

[RC_]

The reference was to people doing good for the sole purpose of looking important, like when Wal-Mart touts how much money they donate to communities (and that's only like one tenth of one percent of thier worth.)

Giving honor to the Saints glorifies God, and is part of thier due reward in heaven.

[Mikhail]

Of course, that's [i]your[/i] interpretation.

[Mikhail]

I don't see how it gives glory to God at all, Rather, it always seems to take glory away from him by devoting more time to the saints rather than God.

[dspen2005]

God has given us the saints. It is somewhat similar to us living out our lives in accord with Natural Law. God gave us this life -- why? so that our lives in living may glorify him. CCC 1477 touches a little on this subject -- concerning the communion of saints.

[son_of_angels]

Is anyone going to actually reply to the topic at hand?

Quit arguing the easy questions and focus on the difficult one.

[avemaria40]

OK, i did so much research on St. Joan of Arc (my patron saint) when i first learned about her in middle school. First of all, i don't even think her excommunication was valid, her heresy trial was a big flop, it was the English, not the church who started it because the English wanted to win and they couldn't just physically kill her, b/c then ppl would still think she was a hero, they had to kill her reputation so that way, ppl would lose their spirits and the English would win France. Btw, many years after she died, her mother went to the Pope to have her daughter's good name restored, and it was. All her life she was devoted to God and the Church, she said something about them being one and she always obeyed Jesus. She tried never to miss Mass or prayer times and she obeyed God. She deserves sainthood.

[Aloysius]

Mikhail, if you believe as Christian ought to (and I thought I got the impression that you were influenced by eastern Christianity a bit in which case this should be more apparant to you) that God infuses people with His Grace and His uncreated divine energies, and as such He takes on a presence in that person. When someone is known to be in Heaven, we therefore know of God's presence in them.

therefore, to ignore them is to ignore a part of God.

unless you don't believe in divinization by grace whereby God lifts up man to himself...

[Theoketos]

[quote name='son_of_angels' date='Aug 29 2005, 11:41 PM']Does anyone else find it at least odd, or perhaps suspect, that the Church canonized someone convicted and burned for heresy and witchcraft?
What does this say about the authority of the church to excommunicate, thus presumably to show someone as being in a state of grave sin?  Does this show a weakness in St. Peter's authority over the keys of heaven?
Does excommunication impart grave mortal sin?
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St. Peter was convicted of treason. St. Polycrap was convicted of Atheism. All of them were trumped up charges (including Joan of Arc's)

What her canonization says about her excommunication then is clear: Namely that the Universal Church in a big way is making up for the particular churches mistake. Plus I am pretty sure that the trial was illigit, as stated previously. So, excommunication if done by a legit authority, would lead one to look for a serious sin. But surely she died a martyrs death, so her excommunication does not really reflect badly on her, just the local corrupted Church.

Further it follows that to acknowledge the Church’s power to excommunicate is to also acknowledge the church’s authority to reverse that excommunication, even posthumously. It also follows that the Church does need that authority.

So if anything, this case show the need for a central authority, in which there exists a “participated theonomy” (read Veritatis Spelendor), so as to prevent such scandal.

Edited August 30, 2005 by Theoketos

[Socrates]

The pronouncements of an individual eclessial court (under one bishop) cannot be considered infallible.

[picchick]

St. Joan of Arc's trial was very one-sided if that is the right word. Things that she said that would help her case were left out of the clerk's book. She had an unfair biased jury and she was a french woman in a court of English men.

The Church revoked St. Joan of Arc's name as a heretic and after a better trial declared her a saint.

I love St. Joan of Arc. She is my confirmation saint.

[Mikhail]

I have no clue what you're talking about. God is no respector of persons. As is clearly shown in the parable of the laborers in the field, God gives everyone the same reward for their labor, be it great or small. I do believe that God gives his followers gifts and missions, but the reward for that is the same as the mother who spends her whole life doing nothing but taking care fo her children.

[God's Errand Girl]

[quote name='Theoketos' date='Aug 30 2005, 02:45 PM']St. Peter was convicted of treason. St. Polycrap was convicted of Atheism. All of them were trumped up charges (including Joan of Arc's)

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Theoketos,

I don't mean to taint your answer, but it's Polycarp, not Polycrap. I know it was an accident, but you gave me a good chuckle. :

[Theoketos]

[quote name='God's Errand Girl' date='Aug 30 2005, 09:35 PM']Theoketos,

I don't mean to taint your answer, but it's Polycarp, not Polycrap.  I know it was an accident, but you gave me a good chuckle.  :
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Thanks for the correction. I constantly misspell words. Glory be to God that some one caught it.