Are We The Bread Of Life...

[foundsheep]

I would say write all the bishops in california. If he hasnt answered you apply some type of pressure. Write all of them every few days till you get an answer.

[Jake Huether]

I would say write all the bishops in california. If he hasnt answered you apply some type of pressure. Write all of them every few days till you get an answer.

Good idea!

Actually, I might wait a bit to do that. If my Bishop does respond, then I don't want to cause scandle. I will wait and pray.

But if I don't get a response in the next few weeks, I will.

Oooohhhhh, and it will only take a few more Sundays at Mass before I explode.

[Katholikos]

There are a number of those "I am" and "We are" songs that are popular here. I'm with you, Jake. They make my blood boil, to the point where all the grace I may have merited at Mass and Communion are probably lost.

St. Thomas offers a beautiful, authentic daily Mass. But on Sunday, Mass begins with "Let's all turn and greet one another" and a whole bunch of chatter, like: "Where are you from?" "I like your dress" and other *&^(* goes on amidst the handshakes. I won't play that game, so I offend people around me. Geeeeesh, they think, talk about unfriendly! Holding hands during the Our Father is mandatory, according to the congregation who won't take "no" for an answer. Then at Communion, EME's are swarming all over the altar, opening the Tabernacle, pouring the Precious Blood into breakable glasses, breaking the hosts apart, as the priest takes his Communion. Then the blessings in lieu of Communion begin. EME's bless babies, children, adults, anyone. So do the priests. It makes me crazy -- I literally cannot stand it. So I go to Sunday Mass downtown, at a Jesuit parish, where they have a classically trained music director and cantors good enough for the Metropolitan Opera. The music is beautiful and dignified, befitting the King of Kings. BUT -- this music minister presents the same Psalm each week until there's a change absolutely necessary (like the switch to Advent). He's not allowed to do that! There's the same EME problem (it's universal right now). Recently a deacon preached a homily on how we should not be at war with Iraq and nearly started a riot after Mass when angry parishioners told him he hadn't oughta do that. There are other infractions, but at least I don't have to chit-chat while I'm preparing myself to kneel at Calvary.

And on and on the abuses go. It's a question of what abuses bug us the most, I guess.

I'm waiting for the new bishop. I complained to the old one and got a response like "thank you for your concern for the liturgy. I think the liturgies in our diocese are great." (He's now awaiting trial on hit and run charges in a fatal accident, poor soul.) I hope you do better, Jake.

I long for the old days . . . I'd happily fast from midnight to noon to attend the beautiful High Mass.

I'll join the Bishops' complaint committee.

Ave Cor Mariae, Likos

[Jake Huether]

There are a number of those "I am" and "We are" songs that are popular here.  I'm with you, Jake.  They make my blood boil, to the point where all the grace I may have merited at Mass and Communion are probably lost. 

St. Thomas offers a beautiful, authentic daily Mass.  But on Sunday, Mass begins with "Let's all turn and greet one another" and a whole bunch of chatter, like:  "Where are you from?"  "I like your dress" and other *&^(*  goes on amidst the handshakes.  I won't play that game, so I offend people around me.  Geeeeesh, they think, talk about unfriendly!  Holding hands during the Our Father is mandatory, according to the congregation who won't take "no" for an answer.  Then at Communion, EME's are swarming all over the altar, opening the Tabernacle, pouring the Precious Blood into breakable glasses, breaking the hosts apart, as the priest takes his Communion.  Then the blessings in lieu of Communion begin.  EME's bless babies, children, adults, anyone.  So do the priests.  It makes me crazy -- I literally cannot stand it.  So I go to Sunday Mass downtown, at a Jesuit parish, where they have a classically trained music director and cantors good enough for the Metropolitan Opera.  The music is beautiful and dignified, befitting the King of Kings.  BUT -- this music minister presents the same Psalm each week until there's a change absolutely necessary (like the switch to Advent).  He's not allowed to do that!  There's the same EME problem (it's universal right now).  Recently a deacon preached a homily on how we should not be at war with Iraq and nearly started a riot after Mass when angry parishioners told him he hadn't oughta do that.  There are other infractions, but at least I don't have to chit-chat while I'm preparing myself to kneel at Calvary.

And on and on the abuses go.  It's a question of what abuses bug us the most, I guess. 

I'm waiting for the new bishop.  I complained to the old one and got a response like "thank you for your concern for the liturgy.  I think the liturgies in our diocese are great."  (He's now awaiting trial on hit and run charges in a fatal accident, poor soul.) I hope you do better, Jake. 

I long for the old days . . .  I'd happily fast from midnight to noon to attend the beautiful High Mass.

I'll join the Bishops' complaint committee.

Ave Cor Mariae, Likos

Thank you for your encouragement, Likos.

I will try as much as I can.

[Ellenita]

Well at least you don't sing chorus' over and over and over again which was my experience in the Charismatic House Church Movement (a brief moment of insanity on my part, honest!! :D ) I remember one delightful gentleman in his 70s who was from a more traditional background, at experiencing this type of service for the first time, saying God must think we think he's deaf!!

[Uncle Gus]

Katholikos, what's the problem with talking to people at the start of Mass? Is it before or after the Sign of the Cross?

[CatholicAndFanatical]

Well at least you don't sing chorus' over and over and over again which was my experience in the Charismatic House Church Movement (a brief moment of insanity on my part, honest!!    :D ) I remember one delightful gentleman in his 70s who was from a more traditional background, at experiencing this type of service for the first time, saying God must think we think he's deaf!!

thats hilarious

Likos, we have Eucharist ministers in our Parish too, I personally dont like it because I dont think we are worthy to hold the Body of Christ, only the Ordained hands should be able to do that. If im in line for communion and find out that the Priest is in the other line, I ask the person next to me if I could cut in front of them so I can go to the Priest instead..I might look wierd, but oh well.

[Dave]

Likos, we have Eucharist ministers in our Parish too, I personally dont like it because I dont think we are worthy to hold the Body of Christ, only the Ordained hands should be able to do that. If im in line for communion and find out that the Priest is in the other line, I ask the person next to me if I could cut in front of them so I can go to the Priest instead..I might look wierd, but oh well.

And I thought I was the only one who hated receiving Holy Communion from an EM!

I always try to sit in the row where I know the priest will be distributing Communion.

I don't like receiving Communion from EMs for the same reasons Steve cited but also because I prefer to receive It on the tongue. I get the feeling the EMs would be more squeamish in that area than priests. I don't know why I feel that way, but I do.

[marielapin]

Katholikos, what's the problem with talking to people at the start of Mass? Is it before or after the Sign of the Cross?

Talking to people inside the Sanctuary is rude. People are trying to pray and prepare themselves for Mass. Whispering important things is one thing, but out and out chit-chat should be done outside the Sanctuary, before or after Mass.

[marielapin]

And I thought I was the only one who hated receiving Holy Communion from an EM!

I always try to sit in the row where I know the priest will be distributing Communion.

I don't like receiving Communion from EMs for the same reasons Steve cited but also because I prefer to receive It on the tongue.  I get the feeling the EMs would be more squeamish in that area than priests.  I don't know why I feel that way, but I do.

We are the same, Dave. We always sit in the rows where the priest or deacon will distribute Communion.

[phatcatholic]

since the use of Eucharistic Ministers is allowed by the Church, should we not trust her judgement? if its ok for the Church, its ok w/ me. also, i'm reminded of a story about St. Francis of Assisi:

There is a story told of Francis of Assisi that sticks in my mind from one of the biographies I read as a seminarian. Once one of the brothers in the order of Friars Minor who was sensitive to scandal asked him, "Brother Francis, what would you do if you knew that a priest celebrating Mass had three concubines on the side?" Francis replied, "When it came time for Holy Communion, I would go to receive the sacred body of my Lord from the priest's anointed hands."

Francis was getting at a tremendous truth of the faith and a tremendous gift of the Lord: God has made the sacraments "priest-proof." No matter how holy or wicked a priest is, provided he has the intention to do what the Church does, then Christ himself acts through the priest, just as he acted through Judas when Judas ministered as an apostle. So whether Pope John Paul II or a priest on death row for a felony consecrates the bread and wine, it is Christ himself who acts to gives us his own body and blood. Francis was saying he was not going to let the wickedness or immorality of the priest lead him (Francis) to commit spiritual suicide.

i think the point here is that it does not matter how sinfult the person is who is giving you the Eucharist. it is STILL the Body of Christ. NOTHING can change that. the Body of Christ in the hands of a sinful man--priest, deacon, or (gasp!) eucharistic minister--does not diminish the value, power, or effect of the Body of Christ.

so, this, coupled w/ the fact that the Church approves the use of Eucharistic Ministers, gives me enough assurance to recieve my Lord in either line. Jesus is the same, now and forever.

pax christi,

nick

[PedroX]

Nick,

I think that you need to understand that the correct term is Extraordinary Eucharistic Ministers. This distinction has been covered extensively on other threads, but please believe me that the church has not approved Extraordinary Eucharistic Ministers for regular use.

peace...

[Uncle Gus]

Talking to people inside the Sanctuary is rude.  People are trying to pray and prepare themselves for Mass.  Whispering important things is one thing, but out and out chit-chat should be done outside the Sanctuary, before or after Mass.

This is all true, which is why there is no problem with people talking to each other in the pews before the Sign of the Cross (which marks the start of Mass). If it is after the Sign of the Cross, then yes, it is out of place, but it is a good thing for people to come together to celebrate Mass and to build up the community with holy fellowship. Remember, Mass is liturgy, public worship*. We come together to be a communion of believers and to celebrate the Mass together. The argument that you should be preparing yourself for Eucharist is a selfish one, looking at the individual rather than the congregation. We do prepare for Eucharist, as a communion in the Penitential Rite, and the Liturgy of the Word.

Now, I am not saying that spending time in silence to personally prepare for the Mass is wrong or bad, it is very good, but it is better to spend time on your own in your own time. When you come to Mass, you are there to join the rest of your community in work, the work of worshipping God. And if you are going to work together, it is good to be on friendly terms with each other.

* The word "liturgy" comes from the Greek word "liturgia," which means "the work of the people."

[marielapin]

This is all true, which is why there is no problem with people talking to each other in the pews before the Sign of the Cross (which marks the start of Mass). If it is after the Sign of the Cross, then yes, it is out of place, but it is a good thing for people to come together to celebrate Mass and to build up the community with holy fellowship. Remember, Mass is liturgy, public worship*. We come together to be a communion of believers and to celebrate the Mass together. The argument that you should be preparing yourself for Eucharist is a selfish one, looking at the individual rather than the congregation. We do prepare for Eucharist, as a communion in the Penitential Rite, and the Liturgy of the Word.

Now, I am not saying that spending time in silence to personally prepare for the Mass is wrong or bad, it is very good, but it is better to spend time on your own in your own time. When you come to Mass, you are there to join the rest of your community in work, the work of worshipping God. And if you are going to work together, it is good to be on friendly terms with each other.

* The word "liturgy" comes from the Greek word "liturgia," which means "the work of the people."

So then you agree that it is appropriate for a family to plant themselves behind a person trying to pray and discuss baking chocolate cakes and what they are going to do later at the mall? Or old ladies leaning over a pew to hit another lady on the shoulder and shout how you doin? Some of us are trying to talk to OUR LORD here. The Sanctuary is supposed to be a quiet place, whether before, during or after Mass. It is a place of reverence. There is a time and a place for everything, and the time and place for chit chat is not while in the Sanctuary. Period. During any part of the day.

Heck, even when we had RCIA classes where we were walked through the Sanctuary, we were told to keep our voices down. This was during the middle of the afternoon. And no other people were present except Our Lord in the Tabernacle.

If Jesus were physically before you would you be more concerned with saying hello to your neighbor than paying homage to Him?

[marielapin]

Here is an article I found on ewtn.com:

Talking in Church

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Assuming that what is being said is not itself sinful, it is morally neutral to talk. However, Catholic moral teaching tells us that "circumstances" change the moral character of actions.

Talking in Church when not demanded by necessity is at least venially sinful for the following reasons:

1) It is the Lord's House, which Jesus taught was "a house of prayer" (Mt 21:13) and thus should be used according to its purpose. This is a violation of justice against God, for whom we should have reverence.

2) It is a violation of justice against actual neighbors who are trying to pray. Again, necessity permits talking, just as it permits practicing the music before Mass and so on. However, most conversations are trivial and could gone on elsewhere at another time. This puts them in the category of unnecessary. The truth of this is shown by the strict guard for silence maintained in the chapels of the Roman basilicas where people are praying. Even in the areas where the tourists are viewing the architecture and art, talking above a whisper is not permitted. This is an accurate reflection of the Catholic respect for the church and for others.

3) Finally, it is a violation of charity, since as Christians we should be going "out of ourselves" to look after others first. If a person crassly and knowingly disregarded others trying to pray, or worst of all did so with malice or contempt, it could even be a mortal sin against charity.

These are basic principles of Catholic moral theology and need no other authority than that.

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Answered by Colin B. Donovan, STL