Does anyone know the details on...

[Laudate_Dominum]

Ok, so my understanding is that betrothal is still recognized in Church Law, but is just not really practiced anymore. People just get engaged (a status also canonically recognized) and then proceed to get married.

The reason I'm asking is because I think its really romantic and I might like to do it someday. It seems possible to find a Bishop who would be willing to ratify the betrothal and do whatever ceremony is necessary, but I'm just not clear on all the legal and ceremonial details.

Does anyone know anything about this subject? (I have a suspicion that Aloysius might know something

Thanks and God bless.

[cmotherofpirl]

Sounds romantic AND holy

[Laudate_Dominum]

I just read something neat.. If you are betrothed in the Catholic Church and the betrothal is later legally dissolved for some reason, you are forever forbidden to marry the mother, sister, or daughter of your former betrothed. The marriage would be considered totally invalid (not just illicit) by the Church. I don't know why, but I think that's really cool.

I guess that would protect the women from worrying about her man running off with one of her sisters.

[Laudate_Dominum]

I found some stuff about the ceremony. I guess it's not set in stone but is different depending on the country:

[quote]The church never precisely determined the form of the ceremony, but demanded for its validity that it should have been entered into freely and at a legal

At the conclusion of the ceremony, which by no means always took place in a church, it seems to have been usual for the couple to pledge each other in cup of wine, as do the Jews and Russians today.

In England:
betrothal consisted of the "interchange of rings, the kiss, the joining of hands, to which is to be added the testimony of witnesses.

In England solemn betrothal was almost universally practised. Among the peasantry the place of rings was taken by a coin which was broken between the pair, each taking a part. [/quote]

I also read something cool, in some places it was common for the man to give the woman expensive gifts during betrothal, and the law at the time (could still be in effect I suppose) was that if the betrothal was legitimately dissolved the man was entitled to be reimbursed for the gifts. However, if the couple had kissed, the man was only entitled to be reimbursed for half the value of his gifts. :

[Laudate_Dominum]

I think it would be awesome to save the first kiss for betrothal and of course save everything else for the consumation of the marriage.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote]Priests would do well to encourage a Solemn Betrothal and discourage marriage, if possible, when:

1. Military service will separate the groom from his bride very shortly after, if not before, the marriage. An engagement in church will insure fidelity and a partner (to a degree at least) without the inexorable and permanent effects produced by matrimony.


2. Pursuit of higher education is contemplated by one or both of the contractants. Experience points to the hardships, material and moral, accompanying student husbands, wives and parents.


3. Immaturity, emotional, physical and moral, present in either or both parties. The engagement can serve as a useful period conducive to the necessary growth of the still infantile and puerile couple.


4. Uncertainty and vacillation experienced by either party in regard to the choice of consort, the willingness to assume the burdens of the married state here and now, or the like.

5. Well grounded fears harbored by any of the parties, the pastor and parents included, about the outcome and success of the marriage. [/quote]

[Laudate_Dominum]

Here are selections from a solemn betrothal ritual for the Roman Rite that I found:

1. [i]The priest (vested in surplice and white stole) with his assistants (vested in surplice) awaits the couple at the communion table. At hand are the stoup with holy water and the altar missal. As the man and woman come forward with the two witnesses they have chosen, the following antiphon and psalm are sung on the eighth psalm tone: [/i]

[b]Antiphon: [/b]To the Lord I will tender my promise: in the presence of all His people.

[quote][b]Psalm 126 [/b]
Unless the house be of the Lord's building, in vain do the builders labor.
Unless the Lord be the guard of the city, 'tis in vain the guard keeps his sentry.
It is futile that you rise before daybreak, to be astir in the midst of darkness,
Ye that eat the bread of hard labor; for He deals bountifully to His beloved while they are sleeping.
Behold, offspring result from God's giving, a fruitful womb the regard of His blessing.
Like arrows in the hand of the warrior, are children begotten of a youthful father.
Happy the man who has filled therewith his quiver; they shall uphold him in contending at the gate with his rival.

Glory be to the Father and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now, and forever, through endless ages. Amen. [/quote]

[b]Antiphon: [/b]To the Lord I will tender my promise: in the presence of all His people.

[quote][b]Allocution [/b]

Beloved of Christ: It is in the dispensation of Divine Providence that you are called to the holy vocation of marriage. For this reason, you present yourselves today before Christ and His Church, before His sacred minister and the devout people of God, to ratify in solemn manner the engagement bespoken between you. At the same time you entreat the blessing of the Church upon your proposal, as well as the earnest supplications of the faithful here present, since you fully realize that what has been inspired and guided by the will of your heavenly Father requires equally His grace to be brought to a happy fulfillment. We are confident that you have given serious and prayerful deliberation to your pledge of wedlock; moreover, that you have sought counsel from the superiors whom God has placed over you. In the time that intervenes, you will prepare for the sacrament of matrimony by a period of virtuous courtship, so that when the happy and blessed day arrives for you to give yourselves irrevocably to each other, you will have laid a sound spiritual foundation for long years of godly prosperity on earth and eventual blessedness together in the life to come. May the union you purpose one day to consummate as man and wife be found worthy to be in all truth a sacramental image and reality of the union of Christ and His beloved Bride, the Church. This grant, thou Who livest and reignest, God, forever and evermore.

[b]R. [/b]Amen.

3. The priest now bids the couple to join their right hands, while they repeat after him the following:

[b]The man: [/b]

In the name of our Lord, I, N.N., promise that I will one day take thee, N.N., as my wife, according to the ordinances of God and holy Church. I will love thee even as myself. I will keep faith and loyalty to thee, and so in thine necessities aid and comfort thee; which things and all that a man ought to do unto his espoused I promise to do unto thee and to keep by the faith that is in me.

[b]The woman: [/b]

In the name of our Lord, I, N.N., in the form and manner wherein thou hast promised thyself unto me, do declare and affirm that I will one day bind and oblige myself unto thee, and will take thee, N.N„ as my husband. And all that thou hast pledged unto me I promise to do and keep unto thee, by the faith that is in me.

4. Then the priest takes the two ends of his stole and in the form of a cross places them over the clasped hands of the couple. Holding the stole in place with his left hand, he says: [b]I bear witness of your solemn proposal and I declare you betrothed. In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. [/b]As he pronounces the last words, he sprinkles them with holy water in the form of a cross. [/quote]

[Laudate_Dominum]

[stargirl3:16]

That's so neat!

[the_rev]

i don't know much bout marriage or anythign that is related to it. I know it revolves around

[Sojourner]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Aug 25 2005, 07:50 PM']Sounds romantic AND holy    
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Very much so. :

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Aug 25 2005, 07:50 PM']Sounds romantic AND holy    
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That's the goal.

[Philippe]

whats a betrothal?

[Sojourner]

*sigh*

A guy who's both holy and romantic -- I definitely wish there were more of you around.

[jmjtina]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Aug 25 2005, 06:50 PM']Sounds romantic AND holy    
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Sean, I want my future spouse hanging around you if he doesn't know this stuff already!!!!!

:

You can be my adopted cousin with all the sweet hookups.