Mikhail Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Over the course of time, one is going to run into an atheist from time to time. If you are the type to discuss such things with them, there is a very simple argument that will prove that it is impossible to logically be an atheist. This is assuming that the person in question is stating that there is no God, as a 100% fact. This is the only true form of atheism. I know there is a God. A person approaches me and states that there is no God. This is basicly what they are saying. There is a painting. Each person is able to see 1% of the painting. Person A sees their 1% and sees a tree. They turn to the other person and say, "there is a tree on this painting." The other person looks at the painting and sees a vast ocean, with no land in site. They reply, "There is no tree on this painting." Instantly they are making the statement that over 100% of that painting, there is not one tree. The person who saw the tree is only saying that on the 1% of the painting that they can see, there is a tree. In order for someone to say that there isn't a true, they would have to know 100% of the painting. Now the universe is vast and in 100 years, we only can know a microscopic portion of it. However, if in my portion that I do know, I encounter a God, I can state with 100% assurity that there is a God. Now the other person, in order to state that there is no God, would have to know 100% of the whole universe to state that there is no God in it. Since this is impossible, it is impossible for him to truely state that. Since all he can say is, "As far as I know, there is no God." he is not a true atheist. Therefore, true athiests don't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apathy Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Boy, Athiest really really really get my grandPa going when you mention it. There are few things he dislikes more than an Atheist. He is rather quick to point out certain facts about them, like "An Atheist is not a person who does not believe in the existence of God, but a person who denies the presence of God." He goes on after that, cursing at times, about how Ignorance 9my baby brother who never learned to walk or talk yet) is at the root of it all and how Ignorance is just the ugliest kid he ever saw and he should try to grow up and blahblahblahblah. Its almost makes me smile to see him splurting stuff about someone else than me for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semalsia Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Mikhail']Since all he can say is, "As far as I know, there is no God." he is not a true atheist. Therefore, true athiests don't exist.[/quote] Nothing can be known with 100% accuracy. If that is the requirement for being "true something", then there are no true theists either. [quote]I know there is a God[/quote] No you don't. You [i]believe[/i] there is a God. That is the opposite of knowing. Edited August 24, 2005 by Semalsia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Posted August 24, 2005 Author Share Posted August 24, 2005 No, I [i]know[/i] there is a God. There is a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hierochloe Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Actually, this represents an excellent method for cracking the shell of conviction in someone who believes they are 100% [i]convinced[/i] there is no God. By causing them to question this belief, the door is opened for them to accept the [i]possibility[/i] of God. This is a critical juncture in which the person's eyes can be opened to a revelation of God which they had or previously would have forced themselves to ignore. One of the first steps in advancing one's own point is to discredit or disprove the opposing view. This does exactly that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semalsia Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 [quote name='Mikhail']No, I know there is a God. There is a difference.[/quote] Ok. But there is a chance that you are wrong. You think it's a very small one and I think it's huge. Or are you saying that there isn't even itsy-bitsy doubt about God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theculturewarrior Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 No doubt here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hierochloe Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 [quote name='Semalsia' date='Aug 24 2005, 06:54 PM'][quote name='Mikhail']No, I know there is a God. There is a difference.[/quote] Ok. But there is a chance that you are wrong. You think it's a very small one and I think it's huge. Or are you saying that there isn't even itsy-bitsy doubt about God? [right][snapback]697734[/snapback][/right] [/quote] To put it in terms of his analogy, he [i]knows[/i] there is sometrhing on his 1% of the painting that looks like a tree (maybe it's really a mushroom or something, but it's definitely there). The one who sees nothing but recognizes the fact that he can't see the whole picture must suddenly reconcile with himself that it's [i]possible[/i] that there may be other things on the painting besides a vast ocean. So the burfen of proof that there is nothing but ocean on the rest of the painting would fall on the athiest, not the one who can see something besides water on their 1%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semalsia Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 [quote name='hierochloe']To put it in terms of his analogy, he knows there is sometrhing on his 1% of the painting that looks like a tree (maybe it's really a mushroom or something, but it's definitely there). The one who sees nothing but recognizes the fact that he can't see the whole picture must suddenly reconcile with himself that it's possible that there may be other things on the painting besides a vast ocean. So the burfen of proof that there is nothing but ocean on the rest of the painting would fall on the athiest, not the one who can see something besides water on their 1%.[/quote] Right, I agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Through reason, I have absolutely no doubt that God exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Knight Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Atheism is on the decline, New Agers are on the rise, more and more people are turning away from Atheists because of their neagative like lifestyle. People who believe in something will always be outnumbering those who dont believe in any form of God or religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Posted August 25, 2005 Author Share Posted August 25, 2005 [quote]Ok. But there is a chance that you are wrong. You think it's a very small one and I think it's huge. Or are you saying that there isn't even itsy-bitsy doubt about God? [/quote] Sorry, no chance here. Could Moses except a chance there was no God. If there was even the tiniest chance in my mind, I would not be a Christian. I know God on a personal level and he's touched my life in a personal way. This includes, but is not limited to an experience I had last year. I was in a car that exploded after I drove it into a tree. That is just one of many. [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/zenblends/car2.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitelord1 Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 (edited) i think, since nobody knows for certain that there is a god, that you have to look at the probability of it all. Neither an atheist or a theist can trully exist by your arguement. Lets say theoretically that you met god one day. I am sure that one who met god would believe 100% that he exists, but i dont think they could say it as a fact........one could say that god proved himself through prophecy and such, but this is not proof. You could easily right a prophecy off as a matter of chance. Mother Theresa claimed that she met god........when they did an autopsy on her after she died they found that she had a chemical imbalance. The mind is a very powerful thing as most of us would agree. She could have projected the image and words of god through her mind. I am not saying that this is truelly what happened because i cant. Nobody can. We dont know anything. I personally like to believe that she saw god, but i am not 100% certain that it was really god. I know that skeptics may make people a little unwary, but we really have to analyze things like this and i think that in the case of mother theresa it is unreasonable to hold a position that she was just imagining things. As far as the existence of god goes............i think that you cant hold a position that there is no god because there is nothing that suggests it. Of course, if there really was no god then it would make sense that nothing suggests his existence. However, there are things like miracles that nobody in this world has reason to deny. Edited August 25, 2005 by infinitelord1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitelord1 Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Mikhail' date='Aug 24 2005, 05:29 PM']No, I [i]know[/i] there is a God. There is a difference. [right][snapback]697619[/snapback][/right] [/quote] sorry but i think its safe for me to say that you dont know there is a god for a fact. You must have a high level of faith to make such a statement. Edited August 25, 2005 by infinitelord1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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