ayed Posted December 11, 2003 Author Share Posted December 11, 2003 In the Name of Allah, The Most Beneficent, The Most Gracious I hope you all be in good health Mr.Aloysius,I thank you very much for spending much time answering my questions.Believe me, Mr.Aloysius, that I am very pleased with you and others.Some of you may not believe me if I say that I am “ a Phatmassholic” . Kindly , I am an arabic native speaker .My mother tongue is Arabic.Some times my English betrays me and you clearly notice that through my comments and posts.I may try to convey an important message but turns out to be clumsy Any way, let us start: I do believe in Jesus(peace be upon him)as a prophet not God.He was not crucified at all.I do believe in him as a human being.Allah states in the Holy Qur’an.: “And because of their saying (in boast), "We killed Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allâh," - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of 'Iesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture For surely; they killed him not [ie 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) But Allâh raised him ['Iesa (Jesus)] up (with his body and soul) unto Himself (and he is in the heavens) And Allâh is Ever AllPowerful,AllWise.(4:157~158). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1-(Aloysius):”…This is not a worship where Jesus is inferior saying the Father is better than Him…” (Ayed): Mr.Aloysius Jesus(peace be upon him)says:”The Father is greater than I.”(John 14:28, RS, Catholic edition)? (Aloysius) :”…without the Son, the Father would not exist. As the Father is God and God is Love, and before anything was created the Father must have had something to Love or He would not be God. 2-(Ayed):In the Old Testament (Isaiah 44:6) :”I am the first and I am the last ;besides Me there is no god.Who is like Me” (Aloysius):”… as nothing is impossible for God He very well could have sinned after being tempted by the devil. yet He was perfect, sinless, and He perfectly resisted temptation because God will not and can not be defeated” (Aloysius):”…I see Jesus here, being made to be sin even though He knew no sin. This Is Jesus with the entire weight of all the sins of mankind past present and future before Him. He is accepting the punishment of these sins, although He is not guilty of them. therefore, He is crying out in the person of all men "My God, My God, why have you abandonned me" as that, since the fall of adam, has been the question of a sinful people. Jesus was accepting all blame though rightfully it did not belong to Him, and thus He speaks as the entire past present and future people of God seeking Him. 3-(Ayed):One time, you said Jesus is sinless.Another time you said Jesus sinned?Contradiction? (Aloysius):”… He equates Himself to the Father many times…” 4-(Ayed):You say Jesus is equal to the Father .If so, why does he equates himself to the Father? (Phatcatholic):”Trinity is a Mystry” 5-(Ayed):Please re-read and contemplate this verse(Isaiah 45:19): “I am the Lord, and there is no other god.I have not spoken in secret or kept my purpose hidden…I am the Lord, and I speak the truth;I make known what is right” (*)The definition of prayer: an act of communication by humans with the sacred or holy--God, the gods, the transcendent realm, or supernatural powers. Found in all religions in all times, prayer may be a corporate or personal act utilizing various forms and techniques.(Britannica 2003Ultimate Reference SuiteCD-ROM) -------------------------------------------- Mr.Geetarplayer: Exactly so as you said that Allah=Yahweh=the Father. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mr.God Conquers .Would you just follow up our discussion so that your questions may be answered through comments.Otherwise,it pleases me to answer your questions later. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Accept my greetings . ayed4all@hotmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 I do believe in Jesus(peace be upon him)as a prophet not God.He was not crucified at all.I do believe in him as a human being.Allah states in the Holy Qur’an.: “And because of their saying (in boast), "We killed Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allâh," - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of 'Iesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture For surely; they killed him not [ie 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) But Allâh raised him ['Iesa (Jesus)] up (with his body and soul) unto Himself (and he is in the heavens) And Allâh is Ever AllPowerful,AllWise.(4:157~158). Ayed, thank you for responding, I very much like to continue correspondence on this matter. I have a question pertaining to your answer here. Why would God confuse generations of his servants into believing that Jesus had been crucified, including Jesus' closest friends and followers? Why did it take 600 years and a revelation by Mohammed for someone to believe that Jesus was, in fact, not crucified, but that God put someone in his place? Why would God seek to trick us? Is not God holy and unblemished? I thought there was only one who would decieve and that one is not God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 ayed, it's alright. i understand how hard it can be to have to speak a language, or type it, other than your native tongue. anyway i don't have much time but i shall respond to the point of your last post that stuck out to me the most (Aloysius):”… as nothing is impossible for God He very well could have sinned after being tempted by the devil. yet He was perfect, sinless, and He perfectly resisted temptation because God will not and can not be defeated” (Aloysius):”…I see Jesus here, being made to be sin even though He knew no sin. This Is Jesus with the entire weight of all the sins of mankind past present and future before Him. He is accepting the punishment of these sins, although He is not guilty of them. therefore, He is crying out in the person of all men "My God, My God, why have you abandonned me" as that, since the fall of adam, has been the question of a sinful people. Jesus was accepting all blame though rightfully it did not belong to Him, and thus He speaks as the entire past present and future people of God seeking Him. 3-(Ayed):One time, you said Jesus is sinless.Another time you said Jesus sinned?Contradiction? I say Jesus is sinless. I say that He was made to be Sin. i understand how i could have confused you there, it's not the most clear langauge to use. i sometimes get too used to being around people who are Christians and would understand such an expression. anyway, when i say Jesus was "made to be sin", i mean that He was the sacrifice for the sins. He Himself never sinned, yet He was killed for everyone's sins, therefore He was put in the place of all sinners, when He Himself was not a sinner. I hope that clarifies things for you. am i correct that you believe Jesus was sinless? all other prophets including Mohammed in the Koran had to repent of their sins before God when they spoke to Him, except Jesus and Mary, right? anyway, i love talkin to you, and i believe you that you're a PhatMassaholic. :D Many of us here are! it's easy to get addicted i'll answer your other points when i have more time... Pax et Amorque Christi! Peace and Love of Christ! ~ Aloysius@JesusAnswers.com :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayed Posted December 16, 2003 Author Share Posted December 16, 2003 I hope you all be very well Mr.God Conquers,I am so sorry for being late .Before I answer your questions , would you mind asking you three questions on which I actually will build up my answers? 1-Do you believe in Islam as the last true religion? 2-Why did not your God ,Jesus , inform your forefathers that he was not crucified? 3-Is there any perfect nation? ---------------------------- Mr.Aloysius so much thanks for you and all ayed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 I've just had the most wonderful awakening in the senses of God's wisdom. I was reading through this thread, and I just had to chuckle to myself. Not to single out Al. But here's a clip of what he wrote: Jesus was on Earth. Jesus is. The Father is. The Holy Spirit is. and Jesus spoke to His Heavenly Father, because Jesus is distinct from His heavenly Father, yet they are both the same. He is full God and full man. All men are given a guardian angel, yet no angel could preside over God, and thus the Holy Spirit is seen as the guardian Angel of Jesus, while the Holy Spirit is God and not angel... And I totally agree with this. In fact. I wrote the very same thing, albeit probably much less clear. Nevertheless, I started to see it with they eyes of a non-Christian and I had to laugh at how silly it sounded. Please don't take that as a bad thing. It is an amazing thing! You see, last night I had begun for the second or third time to read 1 Corinthians. And here's what I read: 1 Cor. 1: Christ the Wisdom and Power of God 18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written: I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate. 20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22 Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling-block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength. You see. Paul knows what he's saying is silly! He know it sounds silly. The Gospel is silly to those who cannot believe. Yes, It's TRUE. But it's silly. It is the foolishness of God! But God's foolishness is is wiser than man's wisdom. And I just had to laugh. Because I, an absolute fool, believe. I, in my stupidity, understand. Yet scholars and geniuses for thousands of years have been stumped. Amazing! Ayed, I know now how you feel. But look at God's creation and understand that He is who He is. We can ask "why?" for so long, and then it begins to drive us crazy! Why do humans have 10 fingers, or 2 nostrils, or why do men have nipples? Why toes? Do we ever use our toes? It's sheer sillyness! But it's God's wisdom. You can ask how Jesus is God. You can ask how God is three Persons, yet still only one Being. You can ask how the Son was begotten, though not made. Silly at it's silliest! But that's God. He is who He is. It is the wisdom of God. God bless ya'll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 jake, i gained so much from reading ur post. it truly edified me. i never really understood those verses in corinthians until now. ur explanation makes perfect sense to me. thank you for sharing your revelation w/ us, phatcatholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muschi Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Greetings and God bless all here! Personally, Ayed.....I'm very happy you are here. It is good to have someone of the Muslim faith among us especially if he enjoys our company, to dispel any ignorant or incorrect beliefs or opinions of your religion among us. But the main reason I'm replying in this given moment is to comment on your English. I love the way you express yourself in English. You express yourself in a very respectful way and so far as I have been able to read and keep up with these posts, your English is quite good!!! I can appreciate the nervousness of corresponding with others in a language not your own. I've studied Russian not terribly long ago in Moscow and that was the ONLY way I was able to communicate with my "host" family that I lived with for three months. Needless to say, I did inDouche learn some Russian! lol. Anyway I do have a question which might be stupid, but I'll ask anyway since my personal phylosophy is: "The only stupid question is the one that is not asked." Is the word "Allah" the same as our word for God in the Arabic language? - Thank you and may you be blessed by God. - Muschi :cyclops: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 jake, i gained so much from reading ur post. it truly edified me. i never really understood those verses in corinthians until now. ur explanation makes perfect sense to me. thank you for sharing your revelation w/ us, phatcatholic You're welcome. God is GREAT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayed Posted December 18, 2003 Author Share Posted December 18, 2003 Greetings and God bless all here! Personally, Ayed.....I'm very happy you are here. It is good to have someone of the Muslim faith among us especially if he enjoys our company, to dispel any ignorant or incorrect beliefs or opinions of your religion among us. But the main reason I'm replying in this given moment is to comment on your English. I love the way you express yourself in English. You express yourself in a very respectful way and so far as I have been able to read and keep up with these posts, your English is quite good!!! I can appreciate the nervousness of corresponding with others in a language not your own. I've studied Russian not terribly long ago in Moscow and that was the ONLY way I was able to communicate with my "host" family that I lived with for three months. Needless to say, I did indeed learn some Russian! lol. Anyway I do have a question which might be stupid, but I'll ask anyway since my personal phylosophy is: "The only stupid question is the one that is not asked." Is the word "Allah" the same as our word for God in the Arabic language? - Thank you and may you be blessed by God. - Muschi welcome back Jake , thank you Muschi. Allah is a monoGod الله Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geetarplayer Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 ayed, you are becoming very popular on these boards! One thing I am confused about, though, is that you say "Jesus was not crucified". What do you mean by this? -Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayed Posted December 19, 2003 Author Share Posted December 19, 2003 In the Name of Allah, The Most Beneficent, The Most Gracious Thank you Mr.Geetarplayer , I mean --Jesus never ever crucified nor pass away.Allah has saved him and lifted Jesus up to Him.As Qur’an says. Allah says in the holy Qur’an .(4:157~158): “And because of their saying (in boast), "We killed Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allâh," - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of 'Iesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture For surely; they killed him not [ie 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) But Allâh raised him ['Iesa (Jesus)] up (with his body and soul) unto Himself (and he is in the heavens) And Allâh is Ever AllPowerful,AllWise Accept my greetings, Ayed4all@hotmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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