I Need Some Back Up.

[Mary's Knight, La]

A friend claimed that it could be appropriate to call God "mother". I told her that it was incorrect and now she wants proof so I was wondering if I could get a hookup in the info department. I"m going to do the bible thing but if anyone has good stuff from the early fathers or any other credible source I'd appreciate the hook up.

thnx

[Uncle Gus]

God is neither male nor female, but He chose to reveal Himself as a Father. If your friend has an issue with that, she should take it up with Him, not you.

If you want early Church stuff, it doesn't get any earlier (as far as the Christian Church is concerned) than Jesus. He called God "Father." What further proof do you need?

[ironmonk]

It is God the Father, not the mother. The Church is the Mother. It would be wrong to call God mother because God refers to Himself as Father.

http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt1.htm

God created man in His image.

God created woman, from man. Gen. 1.

Here are a few articles that might help:

http://www.catholic-pages.com/dir/father.asp

God Bless, Your Servant in Christ,

ironmonk

[phatcatholic]

here's a Q&A from the Truth Facts section of Catholic Exchange that addresses this topic:

Isn't calling God "Father" just a holdover from illiterate, traditional, patriarchal Jewish culture?

Answer:

Several points: First, it isn't true that your average 1st Century Jew was illiterate. Barring the fact that he is the Incarnate Second Person of the Trinity, Jesus himself was a perfectly average peasant from one of the most backwater burgs in Palestine (Nazareth). Yet he, like every good Jewish boy, was expected to read from Scripture at bar-mitzvah and was called upon later to do so as well (Luke 4:16). However, Scripture was not the only thing Jews had. As you note, Judaism also had tradition. What you do not note is that this is not always bad and that Jesus honored Sacred Tradition and taught his disciples to do likewise (2 Thes. 2:15). This was precisely why, so far from being an eastern guru to a benighted Jewish religion, Jesus was a thorough-going Jew who waded into the Judaism of his day and, among other things, called God "Father" and not "The All". For the image of the Father--venerable, wise, capable of extreme tenderness and crushing judgment is (whether we moderns care for it or not) very potent and powerful for the 1st Century Jewish mind and was exalted by the Second Person of the Trinity as the dominant image of God to be passed on to the human race. This was no accident of culture, but the Providence of God at work. Jesus could have become incarnate in any culture. He chose this one for a reason. It is the Incarnate God, not a slave to fashion, who teaches, "When you pray, say, 'Father.'"

i'll try to find some more documentary evidence sometime later....

pax christi,

nick

[musturde]

Jesus called the Father "Father" and the Father is refered as a he in the Bible but he has no sex. You can think of God as your mother but the Cathic view is more correct. Mary is our mother and God is our father.

[Paladin D]

Question, I had someone ask me this...

"Is Mary, God's wife?"

...also...

The Church will be God's bride at The End right? Isn't Mary our Mother? I'm a little confused.

[phatcatholic]

PD,

just b/c God is our "Father" and Mary is our "Mother," this does not mean that God and Mary are husband or wife. The same thing goes w/ Mary as the "Mother of God." Just b/c she bares this title, that does not mean that she is somehow above God or that she came before God.

Furthermore, I was always under the impression that the Church was already the Bride of Christ, that this was not merely a union waiting to take place at the end of time but something that is already in effect. Jesus Christ is singularly devoted to His Church, which is His Body.

btw, the Church, while being the Bide of Christ, is also the Mother of all the faithful. I hope this doesn't further complicate things. The familial aspects that we attribute to Mary and the Church in many ways mirror the familial aspects of the Trinity, therefore making them both profound mysteries. for an articulation and explanation of these familial aspects, i highly suggest the book Catholic for a Reason: Scripture and the Mystery of the Family of God by Scott Hahn. i have only begun to read it, but i get the impression that it will explain these mysteries rather effectively.

pax christi,

nick

[phatcatholic]

here are some articles that may help:

Mary: Mother of God

Christ and the Church: A Model for Marriage

The Holy Family: A Model for the Catholic Home

The Family as the Icon of the Holy Trinity

i hope this helps

pax christi,

nick

[Anna]

It's quite a mystery, Paladin D.

But of course, the Trinity is a Divine mystery.

God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

As such, Mary, a human, is daughter of the Father, mother of Son, and Spouse of the Holy Spirit.

Since she is Mother of the Son, she is also Mother of His Mystical Body, the Church.

That's about as simple as I can make it.

Pax Christi. <><

[Paladin D]

I wasn't saying I believed Mary was God's wife, just to let you know. I also know that Mary is God's Mother in a sense, because she bore Christ. It doesn't mean she's older than God though.

But let me get this straight...

The Catholic Church is God's bride, thus the Catholic Church is our Mother? Or...? Who do we refer to, when we say "The Catholic Church", but it isn't composed of members who are fallible?

I'm so so confused.

[Aloysius]

Christ is the anti-adam and the anti-fruit of the tree.

The Cross is the anti- tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Mary is the anti-Eve.

The Church is the anti-garden of eden.

Genesis reversed.

if that doesn't help much...

Christ is of the flesh of Mary, as His humanity came through Mary's immaculate womb. by the power of the Holy Spirit. The Church is the Mother of the faithful. Mary is the Mother of the faithful. The Church bears Christ. Mary bears Christ. The Church is the mystical body of Christ. Christ is of the body of Mary, thus Mary is the mother of the mystical body. The Church is the bride of Christ, that's the Immaculate Church as a whole, the body of believers are then infinitely more part of the bride of Chist, meaning their souls are actually of the bride of Christ, whereas on earth they are being joined into the bride of Christ, but they are not actually a part of it in the fullest sense of union.

The amazing mirror and unity between Mary and the Church, Christ's physical body is of Mary, Christ's mystical body is of the Church. The Church is the mother of believers. Mary is the mother of believers. Mary personafies the Church of this stage when she is pregnant with Christ. At the end, the Church will be more personified by Mary giving birth and God being visible to mankind through the flesh of the Church, yet physically visible.

this is just amazing mystery. i could go on for days and years and millenia explaining this, because the river of knowledge of this would continue flowing and flowing infinitely through the myserious truth that no man on earth fully understands.

[Mary's Knight, La]

Thanks for all the info it should help when i show her all the stuff tomorrow thanks especially though for the USCCB links that'll probably go the farthest with her

[phatcatholic]

mary's knight, check the links that i posted as well.

oh, and Alo, nice post!

good job everyone,

Phat Daddy

[ayed]

In the Name Of Allah , The Most Merciful , The Most gracious

Hi , Mary's knight

Allah tells us about Himself in the Holy Quran:

"He is the Originator of the heavens and the earth How can He have children when He has no wife? He created all things and He is the All-Knower of everything"(6:101)

another verse says:

"And exalted be the Majesty of our Lord, He has taken neither a wife, nor a son (or offspring or children)(3:72)

Moreover, you can ask her if she could give you any evidence from any holy book on the earth mentioning that Allah(the Father) is a mother. Definitely ,she cannot .

accept Ayed's regards.

ayed4all@hotmail.com

[BLAZEr]

Paladin, think of this way . . .

Most Christians have no problem saying that they are "Children of God" . . .but we are also "Brothers and Sisters of Christ" and what is our relationship to the Holy Spirit? We are neither brothers or sisters or Children of the Holy Spirit . . .

So when it comes to god we are Children and Brothers and neither

So it is with Mary, she is the Daughter of the Father, the MOther of the Son, and teh "spouse" of the Holy Spirit becasue she allowed him to overshadow her and create life in her womb . . . she is Daughter, Mother, and Spouse . . . and SISTER! Mary is also a Sister to her Son . . . cool huh?