Happy Feast of St. Philomena :)

[journeyman]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1041405' date='Aug 11 2006, 08:21 AM']
yeah well did you hear that it is said on wikipeida (and I'm not sure if this is actually true) I can't pray to the great St. Simon of Trent anymore. I really liked him till I read on wikipedia that his future veneration was FORBIDDEN. But it's probably alright to pray to him and venerate him still, right?
[/quote]

veneration - no
under the proper circumstances, prayer for intercession may still be appropriate
(he appears to be a particularly appropriate intercessor to ask for the return of the captured Isreali soldiers being held in Lebanon which started the current round of hostilities)

[url="http://www.catholic-forum.com/Saints/saints0b.htm"]http://www.catholic-forum.com/Saints/saints0b.htm[/url]

SIMON of Trent

Memorial
formerly 24 March; removed from the calender and veneration forbidden in 1965 by the Sacred Congregation of Rites
Profile
A child who was apparently murdered around Easter time. His death was attributed to local Jews who were accused of killing a Christian child out of hatred for Christ. Libel of the day claimed they needed his blood to make matzoh bread for Passover. Seventeen Jews were tortured into confessions. Miracles were reported through Simon's intercession, but the incident is a matter of anti-Semitism rather than sanctity.
Died
murdered 21 March 1475 at Trento, northern Italy
Beatified
1588 (cultus confirmed); removed from calendar in 1965
Patronage
kidnap victims; torture victims

[littleflower+JMJ]

While visiting a nearby church for daily mass recently, I picked up a St. Philomena prayer card. I love St. Philomena!

St. Philomena, powerful with God, pray for us!

Oh, and the prayercard says her feastday is August 11th.

[Resurrexi]

[quote] veneration - no
under the proper circumstances, prayer for intercession may still be appropriate
(he appears to be a particularly appropriate intercessor to ask for the return of the captured Isreali soldiers being held in Lebanon which started the current round of hostilities)

[url="http://www.catholic-forum.com/Saints/saints0b.htm"]http://www.catholic-forum.com/Saints/saints0b.htm[/url]

SIMON of Trent

Memorial
formerly 24 March; removed from the calender and veneration forbidden in 1965 by the Sacred Congregation of Rites
Profile
A child who was apparently murdered around Easter time. His death was attributed to local Jews who were accused of killing a Christian child out of hatred for Christ. Libel of the day claimed they needed his blood to make matzoh bread for Passover. Seventeen Jews were tortured into confessions. Miracles were reported through Simon's intercession, but the incident is a matter of anti-Semitism rather than sanctity.
Died
murdered 21 March 1475 at Trento, northern Italy
Beatified
1588 (cultus confirmed); removed from calendar in 1965
Patronage
kidnap victims; torture victims [/quote]

I don't believe that source is always right, and also, veneration is like the same thing as asking for petition. Also, since canonisations are infallable, once a Saint, always a Saint. Also, I'm on Lebanon's side, not Israel's. I will pray to St. Simon that the Lord may lift the veil from their hearts that they may acknowledge the our Lord and God Jesus Christ, the God-Man.

[journeyman]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1041633' date='Aug 11 2006, 01:53 PM']
I don't believe that source is always right, and also, veneration is like the same thing as asking for petition. Also, since canonisations are infallable, once a Saint, always a Saint. Also, I'm on Lebanon's side, not Israel's. I will pray to St. Simon that the Lord may lift the veil from their hearts that they may acknowledge the our Lord and God Jesus Christ, the God-Man.
[/quote]


Would you like to provide another, more credible source?

Butler’s Lives of Saints (Kelly, editor)(1956)
No listing in index
March 24 – St Irenaeus, martyr, bishop, footnote on p 309 notes other feasts on March 24 – St. Gabriel, archangel; St. Irenaeus, bishop; St. Simon, infant; and St. William, martyrs

since this edition predates the removal from the calendar by Rome, and is a five volume condensation of what grew to be a 12 volume set, the omission of St. Simon from anything other than the footnote would only be an indication of devotion to the Saint not being very widespread in 1956.


Omitted from listing

[url="http://www.americancatholic.org/Features/Saints/byname.asp#S"]http://www.americancatholic.org/Features/Saints/byname.asp#S[/url]
[url="http://www.catholic.org/saints/"]http://www.catholic.org/saints/[/url]
[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/PATRONS.htm"]http://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/PATRONS.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.catholic.org/search_site.php?search_term=simon&qqq=Saints"]http://www.catholic.org/search_site.php?se...imon&qqq=Saints[/url]
[url="http://catholicism.about.com/od/saints/a/patronsaints06_3.htm"]http://catholicism.about.com/od/saints/a/p...nsaints06_3.htm[/url]

no listing in Catholic Encyclopedia at newadvent



Same basic info as above
[url="http://www.catholic-pages.com/dir/saints_s.asp"]http://www.catholic-pages.com/dir/saints_s.asp[/url]
(because it copies that page)


Different patrons for those facts:
Kidnap Victims Nino de Atocha
[url="http://www.luckymojo.com/patronsaints.html"]http://www.luckymojo.com/patronsaints.html[/url]


As to your other point, I think there is a difference between veneration and invocation (asking for intercession through prayer)


ven•er•a•tion (vĕn'ə-rā'shən)
n.
1. The act of venerating.
2. Profound respect or reverence: “The veneration of man has been misdirected” (Lucretia Mott). See synonyms at honor.
3. The condition or status of one who is venerated.

From Wikipedia
In traditional Christian churches (for example, Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy), veneration (Latin veneratio, Greek δουλια dulia), or veneration of saints, is a special act of honoring a dead person who has been identified as singular in the traditions of the religion, and through them honoring God who made them and in whose image they are made. Veneration is often shown outwardly by respectfully bowing or making the sign of the cross before a saint's icon, relics, or statue. These items are often also kissed. The Hindu worship of icons and murtis, often misinterpreted as idolatory, may also be looked upon as a kind of veneration.
In Catholic and Orthodox theology, veneration is a type of honor distinct from the worship due to God alone. Church theologians have long adopted the terms latria for the sacrificial worship due to God alone, and dulia for the veneration given to saints and icons. Catholic theology also includes the term hyperdulia for the type of veneration specifically paid to Mary, mother of Jesus, in Catholic tradition. This distinction is spelled out in the dogmatic conclusions of the Seventh Ecumenical Council (A.D. 787), which also decreed that iconoclasm (forbidding icons and their veneration) is a heresy that amounts to a denial of the incarnation of Jesus Christ.
In some other religious traditions, veneration is considered to amount to the heresy of idolatry, and the related practice of canonization amounts to the heresy of apotheosis. Protestant theology usually denies that any real distinction between veneration and worship can be made, and claims that the practice of veneration distracts the Christian soul from its true object, the worship of God. In his Institutes of the Christian Religion, John Calvin writes that "(t)he distinction of what is called dulia and latria was invented for the very purpose of permitting divine honours to be paid to angels and dead men with apparent impunity." However, many Anglicans do venerate saints. Likewise, Islam also condemns any veneration of icons but in many Islamic traditions, e.g. in North Africa, have and continue to venerate deceased individuals who are recognized as saints.



Ott, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, §23, page 318
Veneration and Invocation of the Saints


Veneration of saints is called “Absolute Dulia.” The Council of Trent declared in connection with the veneration of images, that “through images we honor the saints which they represent.” D 986. As regards the invocation of the saints the Council declared: “It is good and profitable to appeal to them for help.” D. 984.

[Resurrexi]

[quote]Butler’s Lives of Saints (Kelly, editor)(1956)
No listing in index
March 24 – St Irenaeus, martyr, bishop, footnote on p 309 notes other feasts on March 24 – St. Gabriel, archangel; St. Irenaeus, bishop; St. Simon, infant; and St. William, martyrs[/quote]

I actually own a [url="http://www.libers.com/butlr.htm"]Four Volume Set of Butler's Lives of the Saints[/url], though I hadn't looked to see if St. Simon was in there, but even the slightest mention means that he was considered a Saint. I should also look to see if he's in the Golden Legend, which I also own.

[quote]since this edition predates the removal from the calendar by Rome, and is a five volume condensation of what grew to be a 12 volume set, the omission of St. Simon from anything other than the footnote would only be an indication of devotion to the Saint not being very widespread in 1956.[/quote]

There are many almost unknown Saints, but that does not mean they are inferior to more well known Saints.

[quote]no listing in Catholic Encyclopedia at newadvent[/quote]

From the article "Trent":

The much discussed story of the death of St. Simon of Trent belongs to the reign of Prince-Bishop Johannes IV Hinderbach. On Holy Thursday of the year 1475, the little child, then about 20 months old, son of a gardener, was missed by its parents. On the evening of Easter Sunday the body was found in a ditch. Several Jews, who were accused of the murder, were cruelly tortured.

[quote]As to your other point, I think there is a difference between veneration and invocation (asking for intercession through prayer)


ven•er•a•tion (vĕn'ə-rā'shən)
n.
1. The act of venerating.
2. Profound respect or reverence: “The veneration of man has been misdirected” (Lucretia Mott). See synonyms at honor.
3. The condition or status of one who is venerated.[/quote]

I'm forbidden to honour St. Simon of Trent? That sounds ridiculous. Do you think it's a mortal sin to do so? You think I'm allowed to invoke, but not to worship him (with dulia of course)?

[journeyman]

how do you want to define "honor" or "venerate"

Depict in icons, build a shrine, start a feast day parade, name your church after him . . . probably not

Meditate on the many forms of injustice in the world and pray for change, ask him for intercession for lost souls in purgatory (especially those of those who died in similar circumstances) . . . probably ok

Or ask a church scholar - post it in Q&A - to see if an informed answer can be found