Help me out, please!

[Fidei Defensor]

Can anyone help me provide helpful information for the person who wrote this?

"Well, here are some simple questions I need answered in a logical way for me to accept this.
1. I know that all catholics arent rapists. That is a statistical impossisbility. My facts are these
a. Out of the 47,000 active priests world wide, 2000 of them are or at least were pedophiles. That is an amazing percentage. 4 percent. 1 percent is way too much. But FOUR. Wow.
b. This information was obtained by a Father Thompson, who conducted a study in 2002. That Priest by the way was on his way to becoming a cardinal. He was almost excommunicated for his report.
c. Youre upper echelon clergy moved these sexual predators from one parish to the next, leaving a trail of broken lives behind them that was staggering. Again, one is too many. And youre precious John Paul kept it under the respective radars.
Now my question that I pose to you: I know that you are not all rapists, but why do you continue to support a clergy network that defends rapists and keeps them from punishment? That would be like defending Ted Bundy cause you thought he was a nice guy.
2. Quite simply, if youre church is so not racist, even back in the day, Then what is with the silent concent of the slave trade, and the platform of non involvement in the Holocaust? I know they killed youre savior, but come on, that is just rediculuos.
And further more one that note, Why are all depictions of Jesus that I see, He lookes like a european? That guy was a middle easterner. He probobly looked more like Osama Bin Laden then he looked like Jim Caviziel.
3. Not homophobic eh? Well I buy it. Simply because that term is misused constantly. It means "Fear of homosexuals". Duh youre not afraid of a gay guy. You just hate him and disaprove of his life style because when speaking ex cathedra, some old guy who was probobly incoherent at the time told you that the bible says that they are to be looked at as unnatural. Look the only thing unnatural about gayness is the hatred it recieves. I remember a guy who walked around teaching love and compassion, and tolerance. And I think you know who he was. Youre god never said anything about the unnaturalness of a gay relationship. He just said love one another.
So why all the hate'n?
Thunk on those questions and get back to me.
Thunk on that and then try to answe"

[StColette]

[quote name='fidei defensor' date='Aug 10 2005, 08:43 PM']Can anyone help me provide helpful information for the person who wrote this?

"Well, here are some simple questions I need answered in a logical way for me to accept this.
1. I know that all catholics arent rapists. That is a statistical impossisbility. My facts are these
a. Out of the 47,000 active priests world wide, 2000 of them are or at least were pedophiles. That is an amazing percentage. 4 percent. 1 percent is way too much. But FOUR. Wow.
b. This information was obtained by a Father Thompson, who conducted a study in 2002. That Priest by the way was on his way to becoming a cardinal. He was almost excommunicated for his report.
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I haven't found any information concerning a Father Thompson. The only info I could find about a Father Thompson, was one that had been accused of sexual misconduct and embezzlement.

[quote]c. Youre upper echelon clergy moved these sexual predators from one parish to the next, leaving a trail of broken lives behind them that was staggering. Again, one is too many. And youre precious John Paul kept it under the respective radars.
[/quote]

As for the bishops who switched these priests to different diocese, they are most definitely at fault. As for the late Pope John Paul II knowing, it was kept from him for some time and after finding out this information he went public with it and apologized on behalf of the Church for what had happened to these children.

[quote]Now my question that I pose to you: I know that you are not all rapists, but why do you continue to support a clergy network that defends rapists and keeps them from punishment? That would be like defending Ted Bundy cause you thought he was a nice guy.
[/quote]


Why do we continue to support the Church? Very simple. Because a few bad priests and bishops do not make the entire Church bad. That would be like saying all Protestant ministers, yes there is sexual abuse in the Protestant churches, are bad. It would be saying that all biological fathers are bad, since a lot of fathers abuse their children. It would be like saying all family members are bad because it is usually someone the child knows that abuses them. If we're going to throw away an entire group of people because a few bad people, even if it was only one. Then we better do away with all groups in which sexual abuse occurs.


[quote]2. Quite simply, if youre church is so not racist, even back in the day, Then what is with the silent concent of the slave trade, and the platform of non involvement in the Holocaust? I know they killed youre savior, but come on, that is just rediculuos.
And further more one that note, Why are all depictions of Jesus that I see, He lookes like a european? That guy was a middle easterner. He probobly looked more like Osama Bin Laden then he looked like Jim Caviziel.
[/quote]

Holocaust answers in the Reference Section
[url="http://www.phatmass.com/directory/index.php/cat_id/344"]http://www.phatmass.com/directory/index.php/cat_id/344[/url]

Slave Trade
[url="http://medicolegal.tripod.com/catholicsvslavery.htm"]Catholic Church Opposition to Slavery[/url]

[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=1201"]Let My People Go: the Catholic Church and Slavery [/url]

[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14036a.htm"]Slavery and Christianity[/url]

[quote]3. Not homophobic eh? Well I buy it. Simply because that term is misused constantly. It means "Fear of homosexuals". Duh youre not afraid of a gay guy. You just hate him and disaprove of his life style because when speaking ex cathedra, some old guy who was probobly incoherent at the time told you that the bible says that they are to be looked at as unnatural. Look the only thing unnatural about gayness is the hatred it recieves. I remember a guy who walked around teaching love and compassion, and tolerance. And I think you know who he was. Youre god never said anything about the unnaturalness of a gay relationship. He just said love one another.
[/quote]

Let's set the record straight. The Catholic Church does not teach it's members to be homophobic. And it definitely does not teach it's members to "hate" people who are homosexuals. It does teach however that we are to love the sinner and hate the sin. Now homosexual activies are a sin. There are members within the Catholic Church who are gay but do not act on these feelings and are faithful followers of what the Church teaches. So the Church definitely does not teach the "hatred" of homosexuals.

Homosexuality listings in the Reference Section
[url="http://www.phatmass.com/directory/index.php/cat_id/414"]http://www.phatmass.com/directory/index.php/cat_id/414[/url]

God Bless,
Jen

Edited August 11, 2005 by StColette

[phatcatholic]

ugh! i deplore ignorance.....

[quote name='fidei defensor' date='Aug 10 2005, 08:43 PM']"Well, here are some simple questions I need answered [i][b]in a logical way [/b][/i]for me to accept this.[/quote]
we weren't afforded the same luxury, but i suppose we should be used to being held to a higher standard.


[quote]1. I know that all catholics arent rapists. That is a statistical impossisbility. My facts are these
a. Out of the 47,000 active priests world wide, 2000 of them are or at least were pedophiles. That is an amazing percentage. 4 percent. 1 percent is way too much. But FOUR. Wow.
b. This information was obtained by a Father Thompson, who conducted a study in 2002.[/quote]
if this is a "fact" then i want to see the study, or an article on the study, or something that says this is in fact true. also, as for the 2,000, are these priests who were "accused" of pedophilia, or those who were actually "convicted" of the crime. my experience has been that people often neglect this distinction. furthermore, for the pedophilia charge to hold, ALL of the accusers have to have been a certain age when the incident took place. can he prove this as well? finally, my understanding is that the percentage among the priesthood is less than the perceptage in society. of course, this doesn't make the act any less deplorable, but at least it shows that the Church isn't the warehouse of rapists that everyone portrays it to be.


[quote]That Priest by the way was on his way to becoming a cardinal. He was almost excommunicated for his report.[/quote]
prove it.


[quote]c. Youre upper echelon clergy moved these sexual predators from one parish to the next, leaving a trail of broken lives behind them that was staggering. Again, one is too many. And youre precious John Paul kept it under the respective radars.
Now my question that I pose to you: I know that you are not all rapists, but why do you continue to support a clergy network that defends rapists and keeps them from punishment? That would be like defending Ted Bundy cause you thought he was a nice guy.[/quote]
b/c people aren't walking embodiments of the bad decisions they make. the bishops involved have already admitted that many of them did not know how to handle the situation when it was made known to them and that they did not choose the right approach. hind-sight is 20/20. its easy for us to sit back and say, "oh, well you should have done this, that, and the other." we don't have the tremendous responsibility of helping to lead 1 billion catholics. catholics acknowledge that wrong decisions were made. but, we still have to support our bishops. we don't have to agree w/ every legislative decision they make, but we still have to love them and pray for them that the Lord will give them guidance, strength, and resolve. that's the christian thing to do.


[quote]2. Quite simply, if youre church is so not racist,[/quote]
wow, nice transition there.....


[quote].... even back in the day, Then what is with the silent concent of the slave trade, and the platform of non involvement in the Holocaust? I know they killed youre savior, but come on, that is just rediculuos.[/quote]
this accusation has been proven false time and time again. there is simply no way to substantiate it once confronted w/ the MOUND of evidence that the Church saved THOUSANDS of Jews during the war.

--[url="http://www.phatmass.com/directory/index.php/cat_id/344"][b]Exhibit A[/b][/url]


[quote]And further more one that note, Why are all depictions of Jesus that I see, He lookes like a european? That guy was a middle easterner. He probobly looked more like Osama Bin Laden then he looked like Jim Caviziel. [/quote]
is he blaming the Church for this? this seems like a more generally blast at christianity. why does he look european? maybe b/c we have a natural tendency to want to identify with our Lord and Savior? is that such a bad thing? at any rate, its art. it would only be "wrong" if the artist was asserting that his european-looking Jesus was a realistic depiction. no one is making such a claim. since we weren't alive when he was, EVERY depiction is going to be off the mark in one way or another. also, he isn't "always" depicted as a white man. eastern art and iconography portrays him as a man of middle-eastern decent. so, the claim being made here is unnecessarily sweeping.


[quote]3. Not homophobic eh? Well I buy it. Simply because that term is misused constantly. It means "Fear of homosexuals". Duh youre not afraid of a gay guy. You just hate him and disaprove of his life style because when speaking ex cathedra, some old guy who was probobly incoherent at the time told you that the bible says that they are to be looked at as unnatural. Look the only thing unnatural about gayness is the hatred it recieves. I remember a guy who walked around teaching love and compassion, and tolerance. And I think you know who he was. Youre god never said anything about the unnaturalness of a gay relationship. He just said love one another.[/quote]
first of all, tell this guy to just stick w/ the arguments. you can do w/o the patronizing remarks and the cute little jabs.

now, what this person needs to understand is that disproving of the lifestyle of a person does NOT equate to hating that person. surely he does not approve of the lifestyle of a mass murderer. does that mean he "hates" mass-murderers? of course not! it just means he does not approve of his lifestyle. u won't believe how many people are totally oblivious to this distinction. for some reason they assume that since we don't agree w/ a person's lifestyle, well that must mean that i hate that person. that, of course, is far from the truth:

CCC, [b]2358[/b] The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.


someone please find me "hatred" in this statement. please, i'm dying to see it, cause i can't find it anywhere. it looks to me like the Church is asking people to LOVE these individuals.

yes, Jesus was a loving and compassionate man. he talked with sinners, defended their human dignity, dined at their tables, even made a few of them his very apostles. BUT--and herein lies another important distinction--he NEVER condoned their behavior. the Lord indeed told us to love one another, but he also said MUCH about the un-natural condition of homosexual relations:

--[url="http://scripturecatholic.com/homosexuality.html"][b]Exhibit B[/b][/url]

so, far from neglecting the example of Christ, the Church does exactly as he did: love the sinner, hate the sin. Jesus kept the adulteress from being stoned. BUT, he also said, "go and sin no more."


[quote]So why all the hate'n?
Thunk on those questions and get back to me.
Thunk on that and then try to answe"
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no hating over here bro! try again.

oh, and if you could, "present your arguments in a logical way so that i can accept them......"

Edited August 11, 2005 by phatcatholic

[StColette]

Well, I think we've covered it Nick lol

[Fidei Defensor]

Thank you, both of you. This is very helpful.

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='StColette' date='Aug 11 2005, 12:15 PM']Well, I think we've covered it Nick lol
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yea, i got kinda fired up over that one

[StColette]

[quote name='phatcatholic' date='Aug 11 2005, 06:28 PM']yea, i got kinda fired up over that one
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lol I know, I was supposed to be in bed when I wrote my response lol But I couldn't leave it unanswered lol