Melchisedec Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 [quote name='zabbazooey' date='Aug 12 2005, 12:29 PM']You are so rude [right][snapback]683240[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Why, because I tell it like it is? What the person above was describing is nothing more than a talisman. Its no different than a necklace of garlic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crispy Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 hey dUSt, plz say that admins have the ability to block trolls..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 [quote name='Melchisedec' date='Aug 12 2005, 12:45 PM']Why, because I tell it like it is? What the person above was describing is nothing more than a talisman. Its no different than a necklace of garlic. [right][snapback]683259[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Are you suggesting he try a garlic necklace? hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchisedec Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 [quote name='Crispy' date='Aug 12 2005, 01:01 PM']hey dUSt, plz say that admins have the ability to block trolls..... [right][snapback]683285[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Considering I have more post than you, I don't how how I could be considered a troll? I'm simply someone with a difference of opinion, who loves to jest aswell. So lighten up.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchisedec Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Aug 12 2005, 01:04 PM']Are you suggesting he try a garlic necklace? hehe [right][snapback]683288[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I heard somewhere that evil spirits do not like the smell of it. So who knows, why not give it a stab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crispy Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 first of all, post count has nothing to do with it, im no n00b to boards. trolls are ppl who basically incites flames and fighting amongst posters. im all for you voicing your opinion, even if it is starkly contrasting to my own (of course i will do my best to debate), but you are just too rude to be taken seriously. you jest more than u validly input. plz stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 [quote name='Melchisedec' date='Aug 12 2005, 12:45 PM']Why, because I tell it like it is? What the person above was describing is nothing more than a talisman. Its no different than a necklace of garlic. [right][snapback]683259[/snapback][/right] [/quote] That's actually a superficial way of looking at it because it just sees certain externals and doesn't appreciate the distinct meaning and nature of the two things. Sacramentals (such as medals) are blessed and therefore have the mark of God on them which is something demons recognize. The objects themselves do not have power (like in the case of garlic), but it is that they are blessed and have some connection with things of God (for example a particular saint in the communion of saints), and thus have a kind of power. And they are not magic.. The things in the Bible that illustrate the power of relics and things clearly show that these things are not magic items, but that the person's faith is central. So a benedict medal is not a magic item that wards off devils like garlic supposedly wards off vampires, but rather it is a concrete sign of God's protection and the patronage of St. Benedict. If devils are warded off, it is God's power, not magic, that makes this happen. For example, when the lady touched Jesus' garment and was healed, we don't assume that Jesus was wearing a magic garment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchisedec Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 [quote name='Crispy' date='Aug 12 2005, 01:14 PM']first of all, post count has nothing to do with it, im no n00b to boards. trolls are ppl who basically incites flames and fighting amongst posters. im all for you voicing your opinion, even if it is starkly contrasting to my own (of course i will do my best to debate), but you are just too rude to be taken seriously. you jest more than u validly input. plz stop. [right][snapback]683307[/snapback][/right] [/quote] So what would be a criteria for me to validly contribute to this discussion on demon possession. Must I attack the matter in a serious tone as opposed to a comical one? I think that you just do not like me illustrating the absurdities of such beleifs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Perhaps you are attacking something you do not understand. If demonic experience and the power of God are foreign to your experience that's one thing, but to attempt to invalidate the beliefs and experience of others does seem a bit presumptuous. I see nothing wrong with respectfully questioning these things, but an offensive and belittling approach will likely meet with a less than constructive response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Aug 12 2005, 01:40 PM']Perhaps you are attacking something you do not understand. If demonic experience and the power of God are foreign to your experience that's one thing, but to attempt to invalidate the beliefs and experience of others does seem a bit presumptuous. I see nothing wrong with respectfully questioning these things, but an offensive and belittling approach will likely meet with a less than constructive response. [right][snapback]683334[/snapback][/right] [/quote] What he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchisedec Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Aug 12 2005, 01:18 PM']That's actually a superficial way of looking at it because it just sees certain externals and doesn't appreciate the distinct meaning and nature of the two things. Sacramentals (such as medals) are blessed and therefore have the mark of God on them which is something demons recognize. The objects themselves do not have power (like in the case of garlic), but it is that they are blessed and have some connection with things of God (for example a particular saint in the communion of saints), and thus have a kind of power. And they are not magic.. The things in the Bible that illustrate the power of relics and things clearly show that these things are not magic items, but that the person's faith is central. So a benedict medal is not a magic item that wards off devils like garlic supposedly wards off vampires, but rather it is a concrete sign of God's protection and the patronage of St. Benedict. If devils are warded off, it is God's power, not magic, that makes this happen. For example, when the lady touched Jesus' garment and was healed, we don't assume that Jesus was wearing a magic garment. [right][snapback]683315[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I'm not quite sire I understand here, you say that an item can be granted the mark of God to them, thus giving them some sort of power. Yet you claim they are not magical? I don't see how they do not denote the same thing. Aren't things magical, things with supernatural abilities? Can we agree that they contain supernatural powers, these medals? A talisman is simply an object that is given power to it, you could claim that God marks these items with power. The aim is the same, to ward off evil. One might say that garlic has been given a power by God to naturally repel evil, much like a certain root my have the ability to dispell disease. As far as Christs robes, if they existed today, there is no doubt in my mind that people would attribute the robes with great powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchisedec Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Aug 12 2005, 01:40 PM']Perhaps you are attacking something you do not understand. If demonic experience and the power of God are foreign to your experience that's one thing, but to attempt to invalidate the beliefs and experience of others does seem a bit presumptuous. I see nothing wrong with respectfully questioning these things, but an offensive and belittling approach will likely meet with a less than constructive response. [right][snapback]683334[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I understand quite clearly the beliefs of demons. The world is haunted by such beliefs. Its superstitions that plauge mankind and keep the veil of ignorance upon us. In Africa for example, these beliefs are wide spread. Curses, Demon possesion, powers in talismans are quite common. When there is a bad season of drought, and cattle is scarce, it is not the fault of natural cycles but that of curses. Its not uncommon for someone to be murdered simply because they were thought to be a witch who practices black magic. Or because they may have given the evil eye to someone and cursed them. There was an article not too long ago when a shaman, created a talisman to protect someone. This indivuals faith in the talisman was so great, that he immediately had someone shoot him, ofcourse only to loose his life. Yet, it illustrates his belief in the power of the talisman. The idea of demons are very real in africa. Where people decide to align themselves with these figments, and commit murders to take part in elaborate rituals that grant them supernatural powers. We see the christian message in africa take form to adhere to these beliefs in certain instances. Where Jesus is not so much a redeemer, but one would can dispell magic. Jesus is seen as the ultimate power to thwart the evil of witches and black magic wizards. Jesus is in effect, the ultimate talisman to protect them from the demons that haunt them. They are no different than you in this regard. Demons haunt your world equally... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 [quote name='Melchisedec' date='Aug 12 2005, 02:07 PM']I understand quite clearly the beliefs of demons. The world is haunted by such beliefs. Its superstitions that plauge mankind and keep the veil of ignorance upon us. In Africa for example, these beliefs are wide spread. Curses, Demon possesion, powers in talismans are quite common. When there is a bad season of drought, and cattle is scarce, it is not the fault of natural cycles but that of curses. Its not uncommon for someone to be murdered simply because they were thought to be a witch who practices black magic. Or because they may have given the evil eye to someone and cursed them. There was an article not too long ago when a shaman, created a talisman to protect someone. This indivuals faith in the talisman was so great, that he immediately had someone shoot him, ofcourse only to loose his life. Yet, it illustrates his belief in the power of the talisman. The idea of demons are very real in africa. Where people decide to align themselves with these figments, and commit murders to take part in elaborate rituals that grant them supernatural powers. We see the christian message in africa take form to adhere to these beliefs in certain instances. Where Jesus is not so much a redeemer, but one would can dispell magic. Jesus is seen as the ultimate power to thwart the evil of witches and black magic wizards. Jesus is in effect, the ultimate talisman to protect them from the demons that haunt them. They are no different than you in this regard. Demons haunt your world equally... [right][snapback]683364[/snapback][/right] [/quote] That is an unfair claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 demons are not superstition. You will find out. Pray the day you do meet one. The medal has no real value on its own, but by God's grace, it is potent. By the way, the words you are suggesting, magic/talisman/etc are words usually avoided because of their connotative meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 [quote name='Melchisedec' date='Aug 12 2005, 02:51 PM']I'm not quite sire I understand here, you say that an item can be granted the mark of God to them, thus giving them some sort of power. Yet you claim they are not magical? I don't see how they do not denote the same thing. Aren't things magical, things with supernatural abilities? Can we agree that they contain supernatural powers, these medals? A talisman is simply an object that is given power to it, you could claim that God marks these items with power. The aim is the same, to ward off evil. One might say that garlic has been given a power by God to naturally repel evil, much like a certain root my have the ability to dispell disease. As far as Christs robes, if they existed today, there is no doubt in my mind that people would attribute the robes with great powers. [right][snapback]683351[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Like the sacraments, the St. Benedict medal is an [i]outward sign[/i] of something within. The formed medal has no power of it's own, and any power worked through it has its origins in God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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