Help!

[benedictaj]

My school and my brother school have an online forum, much like this cept non Catholic. We have been debating original sin and Marys Immaulate Conception.

I need some help lol!

This is a quote:
[quote]and then theres the idea of original sin. I believ it to be our ability to sin. Now if i guess what em said she termed it so that it was as if original sin was our human nature, the begginning of sin

what if it was in fact our ability to do whatever we want.

Lets expand. Once adam and eve were created the universe was "good" as in perfect or if we take the literal meaning of it without evil
now the last comment doesnt really matter so it can be right or wrong tat doesnt chaneg a thing original sin is when eve is tempted by the snake to take an apple off the tree of knowledge and as she passes it to adam they are both banished and doomed to mortal lives. Now tradition dictates that eve was bad and that with her action of disobeying God sin entered the world.
But i say that it wasnt a bad act that eve made, but a free act out of her own free will she made a choice between taking the apple and not taking the apple, the original sin was the choice, the ability to say "f" you im taking the apple. original sin is our freedom of choice, this choice is niether good nor bad it is merely a choice it is beyond those shallow levels of labeling good and bad

ok marys grace/ original sin
if i take it how youve presented it mary was given grace, forgiveness she was not then born without original sin she was merely forgiven of it

Mary did not "have" to be sinless, it was merely "fitting" for her to be so.

sound awfully like doctrinal flaw to me they have added it because otherwise it makes no sense to have a sinful mary who gave birth to one so perfect. Raising a child so that is good does not mean they are without original sin.

If God created a new eve to be sinless why did he even create the first eve to be sinful what was the point if hes that omnipotent cant he just have done that in the first place, it refers back to the free will argument. in that way the first eve revealed the capacity of choice in humans (1 point to feminism) then the second "new eve" was there to bring the reminder of Gods power/grace/forgivingness back to the people.

jesus was both fully divine and fully human (this is complex so try not to debate it cos we'll ALL go on a tangeant then) but since he is fully human it must be plausibel that he be born with original sin yes...because that is a similar line of reasoning to take original sin away from mary.
[/quote]

He keeps bringing up things that I have already stated my case for. Is there anything in particular that I should include. This is a fun thread though, so I don't want to get angry or aggressive or anything. We are just trying to see the other point of view.

[quote]now i can agree with that because you can believe in God but have no faith ie satanism
extreme example but hey its 2am
and you can know about god through study but have no belief nor faith as it is from anothers teachings that you know not your own thoughts and understanding

and religion is an easy way, if catholicism was proved to be wrong you would know how athiests feel
religion is good in that it provides people with the "lie" that everything is all right cos God is there and he has a plan and he loves you
[/quote]

So I have already explained my self to him (these are his posts btw...) I was basically wondering what your response would be....

[Cure of Ars]

If you want to be a great Catholic apologest I would suggest that you read all you can from the Catholic Defense Directory. Here is the section on sin.

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/directory/index.php/cat_id/398"]http://www.phatmass.com/directory/index.php/cat_id/398[/url]

and here for the Immaculate Conception

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/directory/index.php/cat_id/11"]http://www.phatmass.com/directory/index.php/cat_id/11[/url]

[ReinnieR]

[quote name='Cure of Ars' date='Aug 6 2005, 06:08 PM']If you want to be a great Catholic apologest I would suggest that you read all you can from the Catholic Defense Directory.  Here is the section on sin. 

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/directory/index.php/cat_id/398"]http://www.phatmass.com/directory/index.php/cat_id/398[/url]

and here for the Immaculate Conception

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/directory/index.php/cat_id/11"]http://www.phatmass.com/directory/index.php/cat_id/11[/url]
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the catholic defense directory is awesome I LOVE THAT THING