Racial profiling

[Carrie]

[quote]However, if a person of Arab descent is being searched in NYC, where there is a confirmed history of Arab terrorism, I am not so sure.[/quote]

See, this is where I wonder if we’re making rationalizations to justify racial profiling. Are we basically saying that racial profiling should be illegal in some situations but legal in others?

That is going to quickly become very confusing.

And if it gets legalized in this one particular area…who knows what’s next. At some point along the way, someone else is going to try and justify racial profiling in another situation and on and on until its totally legal.


[quote]Are the authorities searching them because they are Arab or because they are fitting the criminal profile of a terrorist?[/quote]

Since they are trying to legalize racial profiling in this case, I would assume because they are Arab.

If they were searching them because they fit a criminal profile or were suspicious in any way, then racial profiling wouldn’t be an issue.

[Cam42]

[quote]See, this is where I wonder if we’re making rationalizations to justify racial profiling. Are we basically saying that racial profiling should be illegal in some situations but legal in others?[/quote]

[quote]Since they are trying to legalize racial profiling in this case, I would assume because they are Arab.[/quote]

Do you see your move here? You are taking a question and applying an answer as an absolute. That can't be done, yet. That is why I said:

[quote]Are the authorities searching them because they are Arab or because they are fitting the criminal profile of a terrorist?[/quote]

You are on the right track when you say,

[quote]If they were searching them because they fit a criminal profile or were suspicious in any way, then racial profiling wouldn’t be an issue.[/quote]

That is exactly what the NYCLU has to prove. If they do, fine. Until then, I would be willing to say that it is not racial profiling, per se, but rather criminal profiling until it is proven otherwise.

[Carrie]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Aug 5 2005, 01:03 PM']Do you see your move here?  You are taking a question and applying an answer as an absolute.  That can't be done, yet. 
[right][snapback]673217[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Hmm, thank you for pointing out the error I made there. Can you tell I'm new at debating?


I'm going to have to re-work this a bit...

[Jaime]

One type of profiling I am completely 100% behind

Yankees profiling

If they're in a Yankee uniform, they smell of elderberries!!

[Carrie]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Aug 5 2005, 04:47 PM']One type of profiling I am completely 100% behind

Yankees profiling

If they're in a Yankee uniform, they smell of elderberries!!
[right][snapback]673798[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
GO hot stuff, GO hot stuff, GO hot stuff!!!!!!!


How can I reward you for your apparent dedication to spreading the word about how much the Yankees smell of elderberries?

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Aug 4 2005, 05:30 PM']Semper, Syrians ARE Caucasion.  So are Arabs.  :
[right][snapback]672421[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Caucasians are people from the Caucasus Mountains. Everyone else categorized that way is simply such by once seemingly logical standards lumping people together. Ok, so with two of my great grandparents from the Causasus I'm a little picky there. Two others were Scandinavian and there is a difference.

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='Eremite' date='Aug 4 2005, 08:46 AM']Ok, I see what you're saying.

Racial profiling, in the context of a specific search (eg, a white man just robbed a bank and you're looking for him) is necessary.

Racial profiling, as in white men rob banks and so we're gonna search every white man who walks into a bank, is over the top.
[right][snapback]671582[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
It should be the ones that fit the description of the suspect. I'm assuming that since we would know that in this example he was white, there would be some other idea of what he looked like.

What about appearance profiling rather than racial profiling. Skin tone, face shape, nose shape, hight, etc. if it is for a specific incident that has already occurred but refraining from mentioning race?

As a person of part Middle Eastern descent with a very Middle Eastern looking uncle and a brother who took more of the Middle Eastern phenotype than I did, I agree with a certain amount of some kind of profiling at times, although after 9/11 there may have been a tad much.

I have an aquaintance on another board with a thread about racial profiling and he wrote:
[quote]So, the Irish Republican Army throws grenades at cafés and other places of interest around London and Belfast.

As a response, the British government grows suspicious of bad people. So lets pretend they start searching people at checkpoints. However, they are scared that they might get accused of racial profiling, so they can only check one Irish person per every 50 people of another race.

The logic of that would be baffling. Not only does one of the letters in "IRA" stand for "Irish," but now we have resorted to reverse profiling, meaning that, in practice, non-Irish people are now more suspect than Irish people.

You can run the same hypotheticals with the Basque in Spain if you want something more current.

Lets pretend somebody breaks into my house. I happen to notice that he is Latino. I chase him out using my incredible powers of intimidation (yeah right). Anyway, later on, I happen to notice somebody that looks like him. Strangely enough, this similar-looking person is not black, white, asian, or female. Wouldn't you know it, this person is Latino. I know this is a shock, but my brain has just done an instant profile.

Okay. So fair is fair. Not everybody in Al Quaeda is middle-eastern. A few are even white. A few are probably black. We know that a bunch are south-east Asian because of terrorist cells opperating in the Jakarta area. Just the same, I am sure not every member of the IRA is Irish. However, most are.

Now, lets think strategically.

If most of the terrorists have been of middle-eastern descent, and most of the members of Al-Queada working to attack American interests are also of middle-eastern descent, how come most of the people that we check at the airport are not also of middle-eastern descent?[/quote]

Edited August 5, 2005 by Light and Truth

[jasJis]

"Racial Profiling" is the application of a misnomer to applying logic and reason when deciding who to search. As a middle eastern neighbor says 'Please, profile me. I'd rather be searched by the police then the other two options. 1.) Getting "searched" by a couple of Bubbas (we live in the south), or 2.) having some rag head blow up the bus I'm riding with him in because he wasn't searched because they were only checking every 5th person in line and the 21yo Pakistani student with a backpack was 4th.'
Stupidity kills.

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Aug 4 2005, 05:36 PM']You don't strike me as an old lady. 
But I would agree that it seems illogical to search women in general.
[right][snapback]671667[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Terrorist groups started using women for this exact reason (one example, the Black Widows at Beslan..)

[Socrates]

[quote name='Light and Truth' date='Aug 5 2005, 03:15 PM']Caucasians are people from the Caucasus Mountains.  Everyone else categorized that way is simply such by once seemingly logical standards lumping people together.  Ok, so with two of my great grandparents from the Causasus I'm a little picky there. Two others were Scandinavian and there is a difference.
[right][snapback]673874[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

I'm not sure why the term "Caucasian" was termed to refer to "white" and related peoples, but "Caucasian" in the sense I was using refers to the broad racial category of people from the area covering roughly Europe, North Africa, and Western Asia. People from Scandinavia and the Middle East are more related to each other racially than they are to people from sub-saharan Africa or east Asia.

Edited August 7, 2005 by Socrates

[musturde]

[quote name='Nicole8223']This is different than looking for a suspect for a crime. It is a generalization that Arab people should all be searched. I think it's ridiculous. Why should the innocent people be thrown together with the terrorists just because they share a skin color. There is no way this law can get passed...its discrimination.[/quote]

When it comes to airplanes, I'm for racial profiling. I get checked ever time I go into an airport but It doesn't make much of a difference to me. On my way back from France only people from Beirut were checked (all Christians). The only thing I was a bit worried about was that they checked two children (one 4 and one 5). That's when it gets ridiculous. I usually don't care if people at the airport check me, it's more fun than just sitting down waiting for my plane. There aren't too many extremists in the middle east but there are a few. In each country there's an a terrorist group filled with extremist muslims. How can the airlines know which person is in a terrorist associated group or not?

Btw
I also support the Patriot act, I wouldn't mind being spied on if it cut down on a lot of terrorism.

[Carrie]

[quote name='musturde' date='Aug 6 2005, 11:17 PM']Btw
I also support the Patriot act, I wouldn't mind being spied on if it cut down on a lot of terrorism. 
[right][snapback]675505[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Seriously?

[musturde]

[quote name='Carrie' date='Aug 8 2005, 01:17 PM']Seriously? 
[right][snapback]677133[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Yeah, it's funny, In America we get all stressed over such issues like the Patriot Act and Racial Profiling but the truth is, the 9/11 incident most likely wouldnt have happened had those two been enforced. We're whiny about our privacy then when we get hit, we're blaming the president. The Patriot Act is needed, sadly enough there are way too many extremists out there. However, I still refuse to agree with some that say that ALL Muslims are Extremist with bombs always attached to their belts. That is absurd.

[Cam42]

[quote name='musturde' date='Aug 8 2005, 10:50 PM']Yeah, it's funny, In America we get all stressed over such issues like the Patriot Act and Racial Profiling but the truth is, the 9/11 incident most likely wouldnt have happened had those two been enforced. We're whiny about our privacy then when we get hit, we're blaming the president. The Patriot Act is needed, sadly enough there are way too many extremists out there. However, I still refuse to agree with some that say that ALL Muslims are Extremist  with bombs always attached to their belts. That is absurd.
[right][snapback]677813[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Ummmm.....I don't mean to be a sticky wicket here, but the Patriot Act wasn't a law until 45 days AFTER 9/11. So it is impossible that it would have been a deterrant.

I agree that the blame shouldn't lie with President Bush, but you can't use the Patriot Act as a deterrant, when it didn't exist, yet.

[url="http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html"]H.R. 3162 RDS (The Patriot Act)[/url] was passed 24 October 2001.

[zabbazooey]

Racial profiling is NEVER okay. NEVER.