Racial profiling

[Carrie]

I may not look like one, but I'm an old lady at heart.


(just a thought, but the last cop who searched my bag asked for my number. maybe the searching of women is serving a higher purpose? wow, look at them doing their jobs!)


sorry if the sarcasm is dripping...

[zwergel88]

Searching for a suspect based on characteristics including but not limited to race is acceptable, but detaining people based on race or ethnicty alone is wrong.

[Semperviva]

seriously..
if you are looking for a white suspect ..
you suspect lots of WHITE PPL!!!!!!! thats the way of an investigation!!!! u don't go looking for a Syrian if the suspect is caucasian!!!!!!!

only when the suspect is non-white is it considered racial profiling...it seems to me...
i mean yes ppl go off the deep end with racism---but if u need to search a few innocent ppl of another race then do so-
[b]respect[/b] their dignity and then move on

Edited August 4, 2005 by Semperviva

[Nicole8223]

This is different than looking for a suspect for a crime. It is a generalization that Arab people should all be searched. I think it's ridiculous. Why should the innocent people be thrown together with the terrorists just because they share a skin color. There is no way this law can get passed...its discrimination.

[Norseman82]

My problem with profiling is that it is used to restrict legitimate movements. Example: police will stop an African-American who works in a predominantly white suburb. And white people who must pass through African American neighborhoods on their way to work (or who work in those neighborhoods) are accused of going there to buy drugs.

I live in Chicago and sometimes I need to pass through the west side and I've either read newspaper articles about or known people who have been the victim of this.

On a positive note, within the past week I caught the tail end of a conversation between a lady at Union Station and Metra/Amtrak police. The police officer told the lady "We can't do anything just based on the way they look".

[Socrates]

I realize this is a "sensitive" subject, and i'm probably going to get a lot of heat for this, but I argue that "racial profiling" (and other profiling) is not only appropriate, but is indeed necessary for law enforcement to be effective.

The current controversy over "racial profiling" (particularly regarding anti-terrorism law-enforcement) is yet another example of political correctness trumping simple comon sense.

The truth is that every cop needs to do some type of "profiling" to do his job with any effectiveness. To nab criminals (or terrorists), he can't afford to waste time checking everybody equally on account of some abstract idea of equality and fairness. To find criminals, he must pay attention to those who appear more likely to be criminals. (And, like it or not, statistically people of certain ages, races, and gender are statistically more likely to be criminals than others).

In the case of Islamic terrorists, the fact is that most of these are young, middle-eastern men. Therefore, it is common sense, that people of this description should receive extra attention in anti-terrorist measures, such as checking people boarding an airplane. Is this "fair" to the fast majority of young middle-eastern men who are not terrorist? Probably not, but the it would not be fair to society as a whole to waste valuable time searching white grannies and other unlikely suspects in the name of filling some p.c. "quotas" game.

The same principles apply to other kinds of "profiling" too.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Semperviva' date='Aug 4 2005, 11:17 AM']seriously..
if you are looking for a white suspect ..
you suspect lots of WHITE PPL!!!!!!! thats the way of an investigation!!!! u don't go looking for a Syrian if the suspect is caucasian!!!!!!!

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Semper, Syrians ARE Caucasion. So are Arabs. :

[Christie_M]

[color=purple]Hi pleople,

this is Christines sisters, Cathy and Carolyne [/color]

Edited August 4, 2005 by Christie_M

[Christie_M]

Oop, Christine said that this was a debat thing...

[Carrie]

[url="http://www.nyclu.org/mta_searches_suit_pr_080405.html"]HERE[/url] is an article from the NYCLU about the lawsuit that was filed yesterday.

"August 4, 2005 -- In response to the NYPD's unprecedented policy of subjecting millions of New Yorkers to suspicion-less searches, the New York Civil Liberties Union today filed suit in federal court seeking an injunction to halt the policy. The lawsuit filed today argues that the NYPD is violating the Fourth Amendment rights of commuters by adopting and enforcing a policy of searching possessions of those seeking to enter the subway system without any suspicion of wrongdoing. Since the police adopted this policy two weeks ago, officers have searched the purses, handbags, briefcases and backpacks of thousands of people, all without any suspicion of wrongdoing."

[Nicole8223]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Aug 4 2005, 07:27 PM']I realize this is a "sensitive" subject, and i'm probably going to get a lot of heat for this, but I argue that "racial profiling" (and other profiling) is not only appropriate, but is indeed necessary for law enforcement to be effective.

The current controversy over "racial profiling" (particularly regarding anti-terrorism law-enforcement) is yet another example of political correctness trumping simple comon sense.

The truth is that every cop needs to do some type of "profiling" to do his job with any effectiveness.  To nab criminals (or terrorists), he can't afford to waste time checking everybody equally on account of some abstract idea of equality and fairness.  To find criminals, he must pay attention to those who appear more likely to be criminals.  (And, like it or not, statistically people of certain ages, races, and gender are statistically more likely to be criminals than others).

In the case of Islamic terrorists, the fact is that most of these are young, middle-eastern men.  Therefore, it is common sense, that people of this description should receive extra attention in anti-terrorist measures, such as checking people boarding an airplane.  Is this "fair" to the fast majority of young middle-eastern men who are not terrorist?  Probably not, but the it would not be fair to society as a whole to waste valuable time searching white grannies and other unlikely suspects in the name of filling some p.c. "quotas" game.

The same principles apply to other kinds of "profiling" too.
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[/quote]

I still think it is an unfair practice to suspect every young middle-eastern man. I wish I had numbers of the percentage of terrorists versus the general population of young arab men. I'm sure it is a VERY small percentage. If there was a specific crime where cops were told it is a middle eastern person, than they can suspect middle eastern people. But to assume they may be a terrorist with no logical cause is prejudiced. Racial profiling is ridiculous without a specific crime or description of a criminal. To assume that certain races are prone to criminal acts is just wrong.

[Carrie]

[quote name='Nicole8223' date='Aug 5 2005, 11:08 AM']To assume that certain races are prone to criminal acts is just wrong.
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And illegal!

[Cam42]

[quote name='Eremite' date='Aug 4 2005, 10:25 AM']If an eyewitness says the man who robbed the bank was white, does it not make sense to keep your eye out for a white man holding a sack of money?

If you have a characteristic of a suspect, you should use it in your investigation, whether it's height, weight, race, hair color, whatever.

So people don't like that they have the same profile of a criminal. So what? Blame the criminal for being a thieving white man. Don't blame the police for searching him out.
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[/quote]

[quote name='Carrie']Yes, exactly!

(although I don't know if the first example can even be called racial profiling...not sure)[/quote]

That is not racial profiling....that is criminal profiling.

That is totally acceptable. If it weren't, then the police could never search for the aggressor. If the race of the person is not the major focus, then it is acceptable to profile.

An example. In my job, if I see someone, anyone, walk into my store with a large coat, in the summer, I am profiling that person as a potential thief. I don't care if he or she is white, black, or green. What I am going to do, is set my team to a heightened sense of awareness to that person.

The same holds true if a person walks into my store with a backpack, large bag, or anything that would point to them as a potential thief. If I don't do that, then I am not protecting my investment.

It is acceptable. Not all profiling is bad, if it happens that the person that I am criminally profiling meets the criteria and happens to be black, does not mean that I am racially profiling the person, but rather that I am cirminally profiling the person. I can feel at ease with that, and I will also continue to do so.

Does this work? Well, my store was $8.00 short last year with sales of over $1.3 million. Yep. It works. And it is legal.

[Carrie]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Aug 5 2005, 11:23 AM'][quote name='Carrie']Yes, exactly!

(although I don't know if the first example can even be called racial profiling...not sure)[/quote]

That is not racial profiling....that is criminal profiling.
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[/quote]

That's it, thanks!

[quote]Does this work?  Well, my store was $8.00 short last year with sales of over $1.3 million.  Yep.  It works.  And it is legal.[/quote]

What you're doing here is loss prevention.

That's perfectly fine because you're profiling based on suspicious behavior (coat in the summer, large bags) and have a justified cause for keeping an eye on them.

Not racial profiling at all, so I agree with you here.



Back to racial profiling when it comes to searching bags...

Being as profiling is illegal, can this be justified?

Are we giving up civil liberties if we do justify this?

What do you guys think of the NYCLU filing a lawsuit?

[Cam42]

[quote name='Carrie' date='Aug 5 2005, 10:45 AM'][quote]That is not racial profiling....that is criminal profiling.
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[/quote]

That's it, thanks!
What you're doing here is loss prevention.

That's perfectly fine because you're profiling based on suspicious behavior (coat in the summer, large bags) and have a justified cause for keeping an eye on them.

Not racial profiling at all, so I agree with you here.
Back to racial profiling when it comes to searching bags...

Being as profiling is illegal, can this be justified?

Are we giving up civil liberties if we do justify this?

What do you guys think of the NYCLU filing a lawsuit?
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[/quote]

I think that racial profiling is wrong, let's start there and let's be totally clear. [b]It is a form of discrimination[/b].....As far as profiling when it comes to bags, are the authorities profiling because of race or because of criminality of the area? This is what I mean....if a person of Arab descent were to move to my parents town of 5000 in Iowa, and they were constantly searched by the police, yes, it would be wrong, precisely because there is no history of Arab terrorism. However, if a person of Arab descent is being searched in NYC, where there is a confirmed history of Arab terrorism, I am not so sure.

Are the authorities searching them because they are Arab or because they are fitting the criminal profile of a terrorist? That is what he NYCLU will have to prove. Should they file a lawsuit? Sure, it is their right to do so, but the impotice will be on them to prove their case. I think that will be a far bit tougher to do.