Jaime Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 (CBS) NEW YORK Two New York lawmakers are adding fuel to the fire in the debate over racial profiling. They actually want to make it legal to stop people based on race. Racial profiling is against the law. The police commissioner and the mayor have repeatedly said the NYPD will not use racial profiling claiming it doesn’t work and is against department policy. But some legislators say the department should focus on people who they say fit the profile of a terrorist. If it helps catch terrorists, it’s an intrusion most people say they are willing to accept. But random bag searches by police in the subway are still controversial. “People should not be singled out on the basis of the way they look on religious, ethnic or racial grounds. Profiling of any kind not only does not work, but it’s simply un-American,” said democratic city council member John Liu. The NYPD says it does not use racial profiling and the policy is illegal. But two elected officials say it shouldn’t be and are planning to propose legislation to allow it. “People call it racial profiling and it is sort of a loaded term. What I’m saying is if we are gonna conduct these searches, let’s do it the right way. And I think the right way is having the courage to say that if you look at history there are folks who have attacked before whether it was the USS Cole, the embassies in Africa or the Trade Center twice, and those are Middle Eastern Arabic fundamentalists,” said Jim Oddo, a republican council member. But the executive director of the New York chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) says police should stop people based on their behavior and not the way they look. “It’s immoral and it doesn’t work. Look where it can lead to. A Brazilian man was shot to death in London in front of a million people because he was racially profiled. Is that what we want on our subway? No,” said the ex-director of the CAIR William Nasr. This issue isn’t going away anytime soon. Tomorrow the New York Civil Liberties Union will hold a news conference to announce the action it will take against the NYPD for what it calls baseless searches of subway passengers. (© MMV, CBS Broadcasting, Inc. All Rights Reserved.) This is a spinoff of the Civil Rights thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Aug 4 2005, 10:52 AM'] This issue isn’t going away anytime soon. Tomorrow the New York Civil Liberties Union will hold a news conference to announce the action it will take against the NYPD for what it calls baseless searches of subway passengers. (© MMV, CBS Broadcasting, Inc. All Rights Reserved.) This is a spinoff of the Civil Rights thread. [right][snapback]671519[/snapback][/right] [/quote] They're filing a lawsuit today in Manhattan Federal Court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanCath Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Racial profiling is NEVER appropriate. It's way too Nitzschean for my taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eremite Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 If an eyewitness says the man who robbed the bank was white, does it not make sense to keep your eye out for a white man holding a sack of money? If you have a characteristic of a suspect, you should use it in your investigation, whether it's height, weight, race, hair color, whatever. So people don't like that they have the same profile of a criminal. So what? Blame the criminal for being a thieving white man. Don't blame the police for searching him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 [quote name='Eremite' date='Aug 4 2005, 11:25 AM']If an eyewitness says the man who robbed the bank was white, does it not make sense to keep your eye out for a white man holding a sack of money? If you have a characteristic of a suspect, you should use it in your investigation, whether it's height, weight, race, hair color, whatever. So people don't like that they have the same profile of a criminal. So what? Blame the criminal for being a thieving white man. Don't blame the police for searching him out. [right][snapback]671550[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I don't think racial profiling is appropriate. The difference between your scenario and what is actually going on is that the police are not searching for one man who did one particular crime. They're not "keeping an eye out" like you said but rather being quite invasive. They are proposing profiling all people of a certain background because [b]some[/b] people of that background committed terrible crimes. Terrorists are not only of Middle Eastern backgrounds. They're the ones we associate with terrorism most because of recent history, but they are certainly not the only ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eremite Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 [quote]They are proposing profiling all people of a certain background because some people of that background committed terrible crimes.[/quote] I have no problem with that. If you're looking for a white man, you keep your eye out, well, for white people. Arab men are a perfect example. I don't care how politically incorrect it is, when a few arab men get on a plane, I want security to note it. That's the world we live in, unfortunately. That doesn't mean arab men should be assaulted or harassed. Just that they fit a profile of a modern day terrorist, and it should been noted. There have been a few cases since 9/11 of three or four arab men on planes acting very strangely (eg, very business like, getting up one after the other and bringing a bag to the bathroom, etc). These men have been reported and questioned when the plane landed. As much as we may not like the possibility that we will be questioned if we are innocent, it's better than letting a criminal get away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 [quote name='Eremite' date='Aug 4 2005, 11:40 AM']I have no problem with that. If you're looking for a white man, you keep your eye out, well, for white people. Arab men are a perfect example. I don't care how politically incorrect it is, when a few arab men get on a plane, I want security to note it. That's the world we live in, unfortunately. That doesn't mean arab men should be assaulted or harassed. Just that they fit a profile of a modern day terrorist, and it's been noted. [right][snapback]671570[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Being "noted" or "kept an eye on" is different than having their bags searched everyday on the subway. Being stopped and searched everyday is invasive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 [quote name='Eremite' date='Aug 4 2005, 11:40 AM'] There have been a few cases since 9/11 of three or four arab men on planes acting very strangely (eg, very business like, getting up one after the other and bringing a bag to the bathroom, etc). These men have been reported and questioned when the plane landed. [right][snapback]671570[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I have no problems with anyone being searched if they are "acting strangely." Then a question and serach is justified. That is not my issue. My issue is with unprovoked searches due to race alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eremite Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Ok, I see what you're saying. Racial profiling, in the context of a specific search (eg, a white man just robbed a bank and you're looking for him) is necessary. Racial profiling, as in white men rob banks and so we're gonna search every white man who walks into a bank, is over the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 [quote name='Eremite' date='Aug 4 2005, 11:46 AM']Ok, I see what you're saying. Racial profiling, in the context of a specific search (eg, a white man just robbed a bank and you're looking for him) is necessary. Racial profiling, as in white men rob banks and so we're gonna search every white man who walks into a bank, is over the top. [right][snapback]671582[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Yes, exactly! (although I don't know if the first example can even be called racial profiling...not sure) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted August 4, 2005 Author Share Posted August 4, 2005 If Jesus rode the subway in New York, would he be profiled? (Sorry I thought I'd inject some God into the discussion) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Aug 4 2005, 11:54 AM']If Jesus rode the subway in New York, would he be profiled? (Sorry I thought I'd inject some God into the discussion) [right][snapback]671591[/snapback][/right] [/quote] If he had long hair and dressed in robes, chances are likely. Sad isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted August 4, 2005 Author Share Posted August 4, 2005 I have to say though, if we forego profiling, then there are people that get searched who have no business getting searched. In my opinion, there is no reason to search the bags of old ladies. I'm on the fence on this one kids. That's why I posted the topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Aug 4 2005, 12:27 PM']I have to say though, if we forego profiling, then there are people that get searched who have no business getting searched. In my opinion, there is no reason to search the bags of old ladies. I'm on the fence on this one kids. That's why I posted the topic [right][snapback]671650[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Like me? I've been searched twice. I'd prefer that over profiling. But then again, I think the searches are ridiculous in and of themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted August 4, 2005 Author Share Posted August 4, 2005 [quote name='Carrie' date='Aug 4 2005, 10:30 AM']Like me? I've been searched twice. I'd prefer that over profiling. But then again, I think the searches are ridiculous in and of themselves. [right][snapback]671653[/snapback][/right] [/quote] You don't strike me as an old lady. But I would agree that it seems illogical to search women in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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