Church Infallibility - Objection 1

[thessalonian]

[quote name='reyb' post='1861334' date='May 7 2009, 10:28 PM']So you are asking me if I believe - that ‘faith’, which is the ‘complete’ revelation was already given by God to your church (The Roman Catholic Church), while ‘individual faith’ of Catholics is still increasing, and there is no more ‘new revelation’ left that God will give to any man since everything - thru the coming of His Son - was already given.

Do I get your question right?[/quote]

Your playing games now. Of course I know that you are not going to say no to that. You reject Catholicism. You assume that your "faith" is the right faith. I believe Catholicism is. So the question is whether what you believe is true or I believe is true, or even if both of us are wrong and someone else is right, was it all delivered to the Apostles or is there no revelation going on.

[Guest]

[quote name='Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye' post='1860782' date='May 7 2009, 11:50 AM']Peace be with you all,

Just reading some of the posts, i'm worried that an over indulgence and mis-understanding of the book of revelations has crept into non-denominational christianity and we as R.C christian youth are taking on board some errenous comments and possible thought patterns in this area.
I'm no scholar on the book of revelations and unsure of the R.C.C teachings so will not go into detail...I just feel we should preach christ above and beyond...anti-christ...false prophesy and such thngs, not as ignorance and a sleeping on the job like the disciples in the garden but as an "okay sure i've read revelations, now lets not dwell on the anti christ, false prophet and the beast, but lets minister each other with the gospels,the other letters,the wheat within the old testament, and just to humbly rebuke any such behaviour(anti christ,false prophesy,boasting of Sin,Gossip etc etc) in the Spirit of Mercy,that all may drink from the well spirng of the living waters, in the hope that the person will confess that Chrsit may rebuke such Evil Spirits if infact the behaviour is contrary to the commandments and statuets of the Law of GOD including that what is issued by the christ of "Love one another as i have loved you" the Gospel of Forgiveness,and the preceeding letters issued by the Holy Spirit.



May somone of greater scholastics on this manner please make a post..And please somone do, i'm unsure even if i have the authority to comment on such matters?Or whether it is polite to just issue the passage i have written, or contrary to faith or R.C.C teachings? I'm new to Phat Mass and honestly am also new to the faith in the manner that i have only been back at church for 4-5 years, family attendanced failed between the ages of 12-14 and am now 30.If the post is okay no comment needed and will accept am doing what is christ like.

GOD is GOOD
GOD is LOVE
JESUS is LORD(GOD saves)
Alleluia


Create a grateful heart in me O'LORD.
that i may love you as i ought,
and the life you have given.
Amen[/quote]


Peace and may the Love of Christ be with you. The reason it's important to talk about revelations and the antichrist, fasle prophet, and the beast is becaue these are events that are coming soon. A one world political system is coming and a supernatural "antichirst" that will perform signs and miracles is also coming as he will breath life into the beast image. He will make fire come down from heaven and scripture says that even the ellect will be decieved if that were possible. So while you are correct that one shouldnt be consumed by this one cannot also dismiss it and pay no attention to it. True one can accept the antichirst now by not taking up their cross and turning their back on Christ and the Church and putting trust in themselves. I agree with you there. But it is very important to realise satan is coming to earth [font="Arial Black"]in the flesh [/font]before Jesus Christ and he will be claiming to be Christ. Satan comes at the 6th trump and Jesus comes at the 7th.He will fool the whole world into believing that he really is God. The false prophet will help him with this. It is a big mistake to think this isn't going to happen and even a bigger mistake not to warn others about it. [font="Arial Black"] Rev 13:9 Whoever has ears ought to hear these words.[/font]

Edited May 9, 2009 by Guest

[abercius24]

I think the best approach here is to start from the scripture itself. We need to begin with some good exegesis. What in Matthew 16, or in Matthew as a whole, leads to the Catholic interpretation of that scripture? For example, why did Jesus find it important to mention Simon Peter's father, Jonah, in the context of this passage? What significance could "Jonah" play here?

Edited May 10, 2009 by abercius24

[reyb]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1861792' date='May 8 2009, 12:48 PM']Your playing games now. Of course I know that you are not going to say no to that. You reject Catholicism. You assume that your "faith" is the right faith. I believe Catholicism is. So the question is whether what you believe is true or I believe is true, or even if both of us are wrong and someone else is right, was it all delivered to the Apostles or is there no revelation going on.[/quote]

I think, it is not me who will say ‘yes’ to what I have just mentioned regarding whatever your Church (Roman Catholic Church) is claming. And I know, you cannot answer other than ‘yes’ - that the 'complete faith' was entrusted by God to your Church (Catholic Church) while ‘individual faith’ of members are still ‘increasing’.

Now, do you want me to answer whether I believe that ‘faith’ was delivered ‘once and for all’ to your church?

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Peace,
Hey you know what Jesus often stated in words to the affect " you evil brood of vipers you demand signs and miracles and still do not believe" a kinda run on of the O.T where GOD was questioned"is this truely a sign ughh i don't know show me something else" multiple times before some prophets would submit to the will of GOD.
I have had people say to me that jesus says this (and he does to some effect,don't know the exact scripture, read the gospels and you will find it)..." For you will know my disciples because they will do what i have done and more ", has the church not done that and is still doing that? Through the eucharist, confession, forgiveness of sins(and yes you do have the authority to forgive,but not absolve[though in my punic understanding of the gospels i guess if you walked with them for a year if they where a none believer, and instructed a person into the faith, and they started going to confession than you have partaken in the absolution of there sins,risque comment possibly i don't know, in so that you have fogiven anothers sins, and even than not that complecated a simple " i forgive you my brother/sister",)upholding marriage etc etc Okay now did J.C say that we would actually perform these miracles and signs, not that i know of. The only unforgiveable sin is the sin against the holy spirit and is to deny that all good comes from GOD, and i guess this means not band aids for a massive gash but stitches and the tender love and care to restore hope and a lasting healing.
And in addition whomever asked if catholic is the truth faith (as far as i believe), there is one holy roman catholic and apostolic church(yes we have the rights to apostolic succession through the holy spirit [ie. the pope] but this does not mean, and the chatecism states that all christians are our brothers and sisters if practising the faith,[and part of this faith is including breaking of bread and sharing a cup, and i don't know possibly it does have to be wine] he took the wine putting it in a cup and blessed it saying " this is my blood the blood of the new and everlasting covenant" and haha no alcohol is not jesus juice opposed to eminem and kurrupt(god love em), the blessed cup yes, regular grog no. And i don't believe christ and his disciples where drunkards it says they where drinking and not doing what Paul states as "Drunkardness is evil." I know we know just adding a breath of life at the death of lies... hey some people area actually confused about it...some or many (unsure) just bring someone to church talk the world make them believe in 2 weeks than expect them just to read the bible and goto church, saying "jesus loves you" read the bible, pray...thong is if your going to be an evangelist you better be prapared to walk a possible long or moderate(but i have never found a short) journey with your new companion. AMEN

Okay thanks for reading...
Love yuz
PEACE

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Oh i thought this was on a question about a biblical passage " that hell would never overcome the church" ? maybe some how iv'e posted in wrong forum...
Please enlighten me.

GOD love us all

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Just i quick little add(might expand who knows), i don't believe in fast tracking anyone into the faith, and therefore the parish that one is attending should do everything it can to accomadate and seek out prodigals and newbies,(a prodigal being somone that has eatin from the pig trough but was once a believer and newbie being somone that didn't understand the dif. between good and evil), the statement of "hell will never over come the church "in corelation to revelations, and once again i'm no theologian or scholar and have only been back at church, i read(red unsure how that words written) the new testament constantly for a couple of years and meditated on the mysteries'as in used pictures in my mind of the story surrounding the passages of the mysteries, but still didn't get them all up to scratch so to speak and am going through a period of examination and short desperate prayers.But back on the "hell will never overcome the church" Paul states men prophesy imperfectly, so in that the time frames of revelation may not be exact and that it might be an ongoing thing that is the wages of sin, and the church has never fully surcomb(sorry unsure about writting of that word either) to apocalypse though i'm sure every 100 sometimes 300 sometimes 1000 years whom knows it tries desprately to destroy the church, and JESUS rescues her. Know will there be an ultimate victory yes, is this in realising this statement"hell will never overcome the church" and believing,possibly, do other christians have the right to believe, yes. DO other christians also have the right to believe in the R.C and it's mission of apostolic succesion,(if no one has told you) YES.
So in conclusion i believe that hel sometimes does try and destroy the faithful and yes some possibly even throught the ages since the beginings have performed false signs and wonders and yes swept the stars from the sky(as in illuminated people from the faithful(saints) yes) anyhow somone hit the breaks on me if i'm rattling off at the mouth with no basis. And our we becoming more and more aware of this, yes i believe so.

Thanks be to GOD
and i hope maybe something in what i have stated has helped and truely invigorated somones desire to be alert and protect the prodigals,newbies, and saints within our parishes and church from being isolated and ripped apart by the enemy.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Peace be with you,
Oh also god can neither tempt nore be tempted, so the prophets in asking again and recieving another sign obviously is not tempting GOD...I here some speak of temptation being of GOD and people talking it like a test, NO. GOD is GOOD, GOD is LOVE anything else isfrom the enemy... (corinthians 12 and 13...thereabouts anyhow...and right through the bible)...Gospels are Gospel...i guess there are law of man and law of god in the other books...and i'm available anytime as long as i have access to the net...and although imperfect and all of what i say may not be bang on the truth,we can dialogue and help each other seperate the weeds from the wheat, and bring what we believe may be wheat to an elder or priest and seperate the husks, ) (i love this this is how we truely and fully are brothers and sisters, and am finding very little of this in my frequented parishes at the momment), im desperate for that at the momment,and even if you drop a 1000 word essay on me i will read and think about and pray(hopefully, GOD willing) and not just jump on yuz like a rabid coyote, haha

Love yuz in christ. Amen
Never be afraid to make a mistake in talking as long as you alert people to that you just want to dialogue and seperate the weeds from the wheat in what your thinking on biblical passages or what the world tells you, and than we can take it to priests and elders to seperate the wheat from the wheat husks and feast....YUMM YUMM

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

TOGETHER one body, different parts )

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

PAX,
Thers is an old traditional saying in the R.C,it is this "Gossip is the tounge of the serpant", don't let the prodigals,newbies and saints be ripped from the sky, These breathe life into the old bones and raise an army of GOD. " such comments of such things like "oh i saw such and such and such and such was doing this and that and said this and said that" this is worldly behaviour, and yes the prodigals and newbies do fall on occasion, please for the love of GOD lift them up, don't let them become isolated and pray to the vultures, wolves and snakes.

et cum spirituo sancti
Yah levity, may the spirit of GOD bring peace to our hearts, hope to our minds, and illuminate our souls that the shadows of the past and present may not overcome and breed mis-trust amongst brothers and sisters. One bread, one body, one cup we bless. Christian.