ICTHUS Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Hey all. I was looking today on a Protestant website that makes fun of and takes the piss out of Calvinism, and a question sprang to my mind: Who, in the Church, ordered the persecution of Protestants and other heretics? Was it the local ordinaries? The Pope? Certain priests? Citations of specific examples would be nice, too. God bless, Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Just Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 are you talking about the inquisition? The Pope at the time ordered a "Investigation" on the heretics, the dominicans abused the investigation by burning and torturing the heretics. That's what I've read and learned, please correct me if i'm wrong. Also the Protestants exxagerate when it comes to the inquisition, not as many died as they claim, we have books and documentation to prove it. The Catholics were not as horrible as they claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 are you talking about the inquisition? The Pope at the time ordered a "Investigation" on the heretics, the dominicans abused the investigation by burning and torturing the heretics. That's what I've read and learned, please correct me if i'm wrong. Also the Protestants exxagerate when it comes to the inquisition, not as many died as they claim, we have books and documentation to prove it. The Catholics were not as horrible as they claim. Word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Where and when? Are you speaking of the later inquisitions, the counter reformations or the early heresies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenSorrows Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 I don't know about "persecution", but I know God ordered us all to stand up against heretics and those defaming his name. We have to stand up for the holy family and their good name. I think protestants just feel like they were picked on because we called them out and exposed them as the liars and heretics that they were. and what is up with so many protestant churches openly bashing Catholics in their sermons. The devil has such a grasp, it is sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdewolf2 Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Were the Protestants even targeted by the Inquisition? I've read that there were two Inquisitions, one in France and one in Spain. The one in France was directed against the Albigensians, who were a neo-Manichean group which taught there are two gods, that the god of Jesus Christ was different from the god of the Old Testament, that marriage and procreation are evil, that the church, sacraments, and the human body are all evil. They said only the soul is good, and that it will be liberated by gnosis, which sometimes requires reincarnation. Protestants sometimes claim Albigensians as precursors, but really all they shared in common is the rejection of the Catholic Church. The Spanish Inquisition was directed against Jewish converts who relapsed or whose profession of faith was perceived as false. The claim was that these people were converting just to obtain positions in the church and in society which they could use to undermine the Catholic Church and the traditional Catholic culture. The only persecution of Protestants I'm aware of took place in England during the reign of "Bloody Mary" which was carried out under her initiative and authority. There was also the Thirty Years War and various persecutions carried out by German princes and electors, which tended to be mutual. Protestants would persecute Catholics, and Catholics would persecute Protestants. There is a lot of information about the Inquisition on the net, but I would advise caution in accepting all the claims made about it because practically everyone has some ideological ax to grind. are you talking about the inquisition? The Pope at the time ordered a "Investigation" on the heretics, the dominicans abused the investigation by burning and torturing the heretics. That's what I've read and learned, please correct me if i'm wrong. Also the Protestants exxagerate when it comes to the inquisition, not as many died as they claim, we have books and documentation to prove it. The Catholics were not as horrible as they claim. Did the Dominicans abuse the situation? If they did, why weren't they ever disciplined by the Church? The fact is that the Church accepted their methods. Torture and execution may strike us as "abusive," but I wouldn't lay the blame on the Dominicans. Considering the Church sponsored the Inquistion, I think we have to make a choice: the Church was wrong, or the Inquisition was right. Both perspectives involve some theological difficulties. If the Church was wrong, how can we claim that the Church is infallible, or even guided by the Holy Spirit? How could the Holy Spirit allow the Church to indulge in such a monstrous evil? Yet, if the Church was right, how can we accept Pope John Paul II's apology for the wrongs committed by the children of the Church? Weren't they acting in the Church's interest and with the Church's approval, and isn't the Church divinely guided and inspired? Besides, how can we reconcile that with the New Testament, which although it warns us about heresies in no uncertain terms, never tells us to use violence against them, and Jesus rejects violence? The Inquisition raises a lot of questions, but I wouldn't jump to any conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Gus Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 The Inquisition was at a time when the Church was unified, when every Christian was Catholic, and there was no need to make any distinction. By default, everyone was Catholic, so when a heretic sprang up, the Church would point and say "you're a heretic," and then the Civil Authorities would execute them because they were causing trouble. The Church did not execute them. It's a technicality, sure, but it's still a valid point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muschi Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 kdwolf2, I hope I have your name spelled right. I'm going to answer the latter half of your question regarding the Church/ was she right or wrong? How could the Pope apologize for crimes of the Inquisition if the Church is infallible therefore rendering the Inquisition correct?............There were those who served as "Inquisitors" who ABUSED their positions of trust within the Church and without. (civil). Unfortunately the Church has always had her "Judases" and still does today given our current scandal but that doesn't mean that the Catholic Church is not infallible, but her members are fallible. I hope that makes sense and helps you out. - God bless! - Muschi ps. Just for starters, check out Characters of the Inquisition- by William Thomas Walsh, Tan Publications. It's available in any local Catholic bookstore or maybe in your public library. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...&hl=inquisition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Actually recent studies of the actual documents of the Inquisition, meticulously kept and stored by the DOminican Friars, reveal that they rarely if EVER tortured or killed heretics in their near 200yr existence. "The Spanish Inquisition" as an evil murderous courtis a myth propogated by protestants and Monty Python. Also it was directed against Muslims and Jews primarily, not Protestants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Those responsible for the Inquisition were apostate Catholics. Icthus, please cite a specific example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Gus Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Among our chief weaponry are such things as surprise, fear, a nice red uniform, an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PedroX Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 True, Uncle Gus, but mostly surprise. No ever expects the Spanish Inquisition!! peace... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy the Ninja Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 True, Uncle Gus, but mostly surprise. No ever expects the Spanish Inquisition!! peace... That is too funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 (edited) Those responsible for the Inquisition were apostate Catholics. Icthus, please cite a specific example. THe inquisition was started by the Church, not apostate Catholics. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08026a.htm#II Edited November 21, 2003 by cmotherofpirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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