Noel's angel Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Nikolai K, Edinburgh, Scotland: Don't you think that a lot of the objections you have received are warranted? By chopping up bodies and plastinating them - you can obviously appreciate how some people might see this as not exactly the actions of a balanced individual. What is your reaction to this, please? Professor Gunther von Hagens: In this way, we would have also called Leonardo da Vinci and other Middle Age masters - in which tradition I see myself as fully unbalanced because what they did they even went out at night stealing, without consent, the bodies from the gallows, dissected them up, hide them - like Leonardo, under his bed - and in this way they opened up medical science for us and now we enjoy a double lifespan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunga_ann Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 I myself would not want to totally give my life to science, but I don't think there is anything wrong with this show. Why? One, these people propobly wanted this to happen to them when they died, two, they didn't kill themselves to be in the show, and three, because it is an awesome way to see how the muscles in the awesome human body look in every day poses, like the guy sitting or the skateboarder. I think it is cool. I saw on a program, they were doing this 100ish years ago, also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 [quote name='Gunga_ann' date='Aug 1 2005, 02:42 PM']I myself would not want to totally give my life to science, but I don't think there is anything wrong with this show. Why? One, these people propobly wanted this to happen to them when they died, two, they didn't kill themselves to be in the show, and three, because it is an awesome way to see how the muscles in the awesome human body look in every day poses, like the guy sitting or the skateboarder. I think it is cool. I saw on a program, they were doing this 100ish years ago, also. [right][snapback]667459[/snapback][/right] [/quote] 1. They might have sold their bodies to science out of necessity - like prostitution 2. How do you know if they didn't kill themselves? 3. You have a point, nothing like the real thing to see how it really is. I guess this is something like "the eye of the beholder thing", but I still think the person organising the show should make attempts not to 'sensationalise' the show - like the guy holding his own skin... what is so awesome about that? There are fine lines here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 yeah, you are right-all the bodies are donated willingly. 'I learned a lot at the exhibition, gaining a myriad of little insights and revelations. I learned that many of the muscles that move the fingers are in the forearm - if the muscles were in the hands themselves then they would be too large and heavy to be dextrous. Now I know better what a pancreas, the spleen, the sinuses and various other vaguely mysterious organs do and look like. Two full body slices with arms out stretched, and placed at right angles to form a strangely symbolic cross, demonstrated how our height and our arm spam are roughly the same. That was a stunning way to demonstrate a simple fact! The bodies were presented with great skill, revealing different aspects of the body not just in an insightful, but also in an artistic way. I an not alone in my opinion that modern art is not as clever as it thinks it is; is more tedious that it thinks and is staggeringly talent-free, and I despise the establishment that supports this cultural decay. But the exhibits here, whilst not art per se, are truly artistic, there was obviously true skill, passion and imagination involved in presenting some of these bodies that only a master craftsman could produce. Like some of the best computer games, art in this exhibition is a pleasing emergent property of the primary raison d'etre of the object. The anatomy and the art are a duality as surely as brain and mind. They are only possible combined. Brains were preserved here, but not minds. Nearly all the bodies were shown with the skin and fat stripped away to reveal the muscles, nerves and a cornucopia of other internal organs. Because of this I had to keep reminding myself that I was looking at real dead people. The polymerisation caused by the von Hagens' patented "plastination" process makes the bodies resemble remarkably intricate models made of plastic, and in a way, the bodies are plastic, they are high tech fossils. These are the science mummies. I can truly understand why thousands of people offer their bodies to be displayed at these exhibitions. It would be great to be a fossil used to teach, rather than a banquet for lucky creepy crawlies. Our body is our greatest asset and yet we dispose of these astonishing machines in the most destructive way. Occasionally, for example when I saw real eye lashes on the eyelids, I would realise emotionally as well as intellectually that I was gazing at actual people. Looking at the skinless faces I kept wondering what they looked like. I yearned to see photographs of the people I examined as they were when they were alive, so I could relate to the more abstract bone and flesh. That would have been fascinating but it is very understandable why they preserve the anonymity of the bodies. Maybe in the future they will begin to show photographs of the person behind the corpse. That really would have been intriguing, in a bad taste, voyeuristic kind of way. But, let's face it - it is human to be that way. This is why the exhibition is such a success: for all the educational value, if I am typical then it appeals at least partly to our fascination in the morbid. Body Worlds offers a acknowledgement to Christianity. Along with a rather thought provoking tribute to the donors, there is a comment that Christianity is the most anatomy-friendly of all religions, that the popes of the sixteenth century sanctioned anatomy as a genuine way to better appreciate God. I am an atheist, but I too appreciate that open mindedness. I came away once again wishing that those Christians who doggedly deny evolution would desist (ironically they are mostly situated in supposedly educated America these days). To be as open minded and curious about the study of evolution today as their forebears were open minded and curious about anatomy would be a credit to the religion. Many Christians believe that evolution does not contradict the spirit of the bible. I hope that this trend continues. If Christianity could lead the world's religions with their leadership and enlightenment regarding evolution in the same way it did with anatomy, then it would be a deep credit to the church and to Christianity as a forward looking and enlightened religion. My overall impressions of the Body Worlds exhibition are that I am delighted I went. I do not perceive it as gratuitous exploitation, or even if it is, it is justifiable as it invites us (or invited me at any rate) to confront the unthinkable. There is no snobbery, just an unforgettable and accessible presentation of anatomy and a desire to give knowledge. It made me alter my perspective on life in a positive way and most of all it is thought provoking. An outstandingly unusual thing in an unusual exhibition is that death is not presented in a funereal way and nor is it trivialised: this isn't Disneyland. The main point is to learn about our bodies, but at the same time death is presented in a thoughtful, almost celebratory way. We see death with learning, humour, humanity and - in a paradoxical way - death is shown with an intimacy that is both disturbing and reassuring.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 [quote name='Didacus' date='Aug 1 2005, 08:48 PM']1. They might have sold their bodies to science out of necessity - like prostitution 2. How do you know if they didn't kill themselves? 3. You have a point, nothing like the real thing to see how it really is. I guess this is something like "the eye of the beholder thing", but I still think the person organising the show should make attempts not to 'sensationalise' the show - like the guy holding his own skin... what is so awesome about that? There are fine lines here. [right][snapback]667468[/snapback][/right] [/quote] 1. they don't sell their bodies, they donate them 2. he only uses bodies of people who have willingly donated them 3. it may seem 'sensationalised' to you, but remember, the poem about the red wheelbarrow wasn't about a red wheelbarrow at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 [quote name='Noel's angel' date='Aug 1 2005, 02:50 PM'][snip] 3. it may seem 'sensationalised' to you, but remember, the poem about the red wheelbarrow wasn't about a red wheelbarrow at all... [right][snapback]667471[/snapback][/right] [/quote] i know a cute one about a sheep that wasn't realy a sheep, but it's not appropriate for htese boards... I don't know anything about a poem of a red wheelbarrel that wasn't a wheelbarrel... Ahhh, but i do know the story of the woman who crossed the borders every morning selling sand that was in a wheelbarrel.... turns out she wasn't selling snad at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 [quote name='Noel's angel' date='Aug 1 2005, 03:54 PM'] [right][snapback]667551[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Hey, no, I'm serious, what is this poem about a wheelbarrel? I want to know... I used to want to be a poet (actually, I still do... ) Do share, do share? I'll tell you my story about a wheelbarrel, then you tell me the poem you got on wheelbarrels... and then we'll leave it at that (don't want to turn this into a wheelbarrel thread...) _________________________ A woman was crossing the borders to go to the market every morning. The guard/tax collector would ask every morning what she was selling... "sand, just sand" she would say, with her wheelbarrel full of sand. The guard, every morning would check the sand to see if the woman was smuggling any goods, and never found anything in the wheelbarrel except for the sand she mentionned. He thought she was a nut-case, and actually stopped checking the sand all together after a while. Until one day, going through the market with his friend, his firend happened to point her out and said "That lady sells the nicest wheelbarrels in the market.". The guard slapped his head more than once. OK, now your turn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 lol! ok, i'll see if i can find the wheelbarrow poem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 so much depends upon a red wheel barrow glazed with rain water beside the white chickens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Noel's angel' date='Aug 1 2005, 04:01 PM']so much depends upon a red wheel barrow glazed with rain water beside the white chickens. [right][snapback]667560[/snapback][/right] [/quote] gosh, yours is a lot better than mine. I like it. I really really like it!!! ________ edited; and yes, I just noticed I spelt wheelbarrel wrong.... In french its a 'barril' so my guess was actually a good one... ils sont fous ces anglais! Edited August 1, 2005 by Didacus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 lol! u rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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