No Salvation Outside of the Catholic Church

[Papist]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' timestamp='1327006919' post='2371568']
[url="http://www.romancatholicism.org/jansenism/tradition-eens.htm"]http://www.romancath...dition-eens.htm[/url]
[/quote]

Glad I am Catholic then.

But seriously, romancatholicism[dot]org?

Edited January 19, 2012 by Papist

[thessalonian]

Not sure what is so hard to understand what the Catechism says about this statement. The statement is an affirmation that one must belong to Christ's Church which is the Catholic Church. That is the positive affirmation of the doctrine for those who are trying their best to come to know Christ fully. The Church however recognizes that there are those who are imperfectly joined to the Church through baptism and also those who do not willfully and knowingly separate themselves from her. These it does not say are saved. They leave them up to the mercy and justice of God. The confusion of this world and sins of this world by which we are affected cause some to not be in a culpable state. They cannot be charged with the sin of separation from the Church. Only God can judge these. No the CC is whom Christ said she was and leaves the judgement in God's hands alone of all mankind.

By the way protestantism has this same doctrine. They just extend the bounds of "Church" further than the Catholic Church (and some put Catholics outside of those bounds). And for many if not most of them who did not have a chance to know Christ go to hell including women and children, even babies. I do not believe this is the root of why you won't become Catholic dairy.

[Groo the Wanderer]

gee. double mortal sins here.

rezzing old threads

cut/paste of old docs


time for confession, DG

[Aloysius]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' timestamp='1327009624' post='2371601']
[size=3][font=Book Antiqua]"Our Predecessor, [b]Benedict XIV[/b], had just cause to write: "We declare that a great number of those who are condemned to eternal punishment suffer that everlasting calamity because of [b]ignorance[/b] of those mysteries of faith which [b]must be known and believed[/b] in order to be numbered among the elect."" (Acerbo Nimis)[/font][/size]
[/quote]there is culpable ignorance and then there is inculpable ignorance. we can never judge a specific case, but indeed people can go to hell for culpable ignorance.

the inculpably ignorant may be given the chance to know and believe when they die (in God's mercy if He so wills it), but of course if you are culpably ignorant in this life then you will remain culpably ignorant if given a chance to know upon death.

[Dennis Tate]

I personally have serious leanings toward the idea that the God of Abraham is out to accomplish nothing less than universal salvation, eventually!

Time is something that was actually invented a long long time ago....I assume that the reason was to give angels and humans the experience of learning over time. I strongly suspect that the Jewish festival of Yom Kippur holds a clue as to the identity of the fallen angel who will become the metaphorical General Abner who will begin the process of bringing the fallen angelic kingdom back into alignment with the Creator. Look up Leviticus 16:10 in the RSV for more information on this theory.

Oh....when Rabbi Jesus/Yahushua called Jerusalem the city of the great king...do you think that he was speaking about himself or about his grandfather King David....who is specifically mentioned in the book of Acts as NOT having ascended into the highest heaven!?!?

Is Rabbi Jesus in his glorified form at this very moment raising up King David for the Jewish people exactly as promised in the prophets?

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1327576779' post='2375615']
there is culpable ignorance and then there is inculpable ignorance. we can never judge a specific case, but indeed people can go to hell for culpable ignorance.

the inculpably ignorant may be given the chance to know and believe when they die (in God's mercy if He so wills it), but of course if you are culpably ignorant in this life then you will remain culpably ignorant if given a chance to know upon death.
[/quote]

i had at first thought that this was too easy an out. a cop out to draw a distinction after the fact.
but then i looked into it, and i see that it was pius X who was quoting his predecesser saying ignorance damns. yet, pius IX said this...
""Here, too, our beloved sons and venerable brothers, it is again necessary to mention and censure a very grave error entrapping some Catholics who believe that it is possible to arrive at eternal salvation although living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity. Such belief is certainly opposed to Catholic teaching. There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments."

i would admit, that one would think pius X would be aware of what pius IX said too. so the cop out thing might not be so much after all. hmm

[Nihil Obstat]

Oh not this thread again.
[img]http://cdn.polfurs.org/chanfiles/p/src/p_PFchan_130921627252.png[/img]

[Selah]

[quote]Yahushua [/quote]

I think you forgot an h in there somewhere