LittleLes Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 [quote name='Paladin D' date='Aug 1 2005, 12:11 AM']That is off-topic, you'll have to create another thread for that. [right][snapback]666919[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE If you reread the question, you will see that this was a responsive filing, an answer to an absurd statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 [quote name='Paladin D' date='Aug 1 2005, 12:28 AM'][b]Littleles[/b], by what you have made evident in this thread, would it be accurate to say that your belief is: [b][i]Jesus was a real historical person, but not the messiah.[/b][/i] If there is something else I'm missing, please state it. [right][snapback]666927[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE No. Please reread what I have written. I said that the evidence points to Jesus being a historical person, perhaps a messiah, but he was not considered divine by his original followers. At least not until about 90 A.D. And then,because many of his followers began to consider him to be divine, the Jerusalem Christians were at that point declared heretics and expelled from the synagogues. But not as long as they only considered Jesus to be the Messiah, but not divine. That wasn't a problem for the Jewish monotheists. The Gospel of John, written after this date, refers to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted August 1, 2005 Author Share Posted August 1, 2005 [quote name='LittleLes' date='Aug 1 2005, 07:24 AM']RESPONSE No. Please reread what I have written. I said that the evidence points to Jesus being a historical person, perhaps a messiah, but he was not considered divine by his original followers. At least not until about 90 A.D. And then,because many of his followers began to consider him to be divine, the Jerusalem Christians were at that point declared heretics and expelled from the synagogues. But not as long as they only considered Jesus to be the Messiah, but not divine. That wasn't a problem for the Jewish monotheists. The Gospel of John, written after this date, refers to this. [right][snapback]666993[/snapback][/right] [/quote] So your belief is: [b]Jesus was a historical person, perhaps a messiah, but not divine.[/b] (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted August 1, 2005 Author Share Posted August 1, 2005 [quote name='LittleLes' date='Aug 1 2005, 07:14 AM']RESPONSE: "If you already knew about "ideals. " you would clearly see how your position is completely illogical." That's an absolutely illogical statement. [/quote] Not exactly, read my examples beforehand. [quote]Age and military experience need not be a sign of maturity. Only of aging. : I rememeber the old song. "I want to be a Ranger." And people wanting to jump out of perfectly good airplanes! Is that mature????? : [right][snapback]666991[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Experiencing an adrenaline rush is not a sign of inmaturity, if that were the case, any adult who enjoys rollercoasters is out of his mind. My parish is filled with military veterans of every branch, yet they're mature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted August 1, 2005 Author Share Posted August 1, 2005 [quote name='LittleLes' date='Aug 1 2005, 07:16 AM']RESPONSE If you reread the question, you will see that this was a responsive filing, an answer to an absurd statement. [right][snapback]666992[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Isn't absurdity part of your everyday life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quietfire Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 By his own words, LilLes is not only a Non-Catholic. He is also a Non-Christian. Folks, why even debate with someone who is clearly a non-christian. Pax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 [quote name='Paladin D' date='Aug 1 2005, 10:33 AM']Not exactly, read my examples beforehand. Experiencing an adrenaline rush is not a sign of inmaturity, if that were the case, any adult who enjoys rollercoasters is out of his mind. My parish is filled with military veterans of every branch, yet they're mature. [right][snapback]667132[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: What is your criteria of "maturity"? Those who unquestioningly accept everything they are told by those they assume to be in authority over them? Doesn't Paul tell us to put away childish beliefs and believe like a man? And if you do join the Army, there are three cautions I'd offer. (1) Don't do anything to draw fire nor stand near anybody who is going to draw fire. (2) Avoid 2nd lieutenants with maps! (3) Do not bail out over a village you have just bombed. (4) Avoid equipment that has a switch saying "press to test" / "release to detonate"! : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 [quote name='Paladin D' date='Aug 1 2005, 10:34 AM']Isn't absurdity part of your everyday life? [right][snapback]667133[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: It certainly is when I read some people's posts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 [quote name='Quietfire' date='Aug 1 2005, 11:04 AM']By his own words, LilLes is not only a Non-Catholic. He is also a Non-Christian. Folks, why even debate with someone who is clearly a non-christian. Pax. [right][snapback]667156[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: Because you might learn something????? : Do only Christians possess the truth???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirklawd Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 hey now! i started this thread and it was locked. no fair! but since we're here, has anyone bothered to ask the really important question? LittleLes. why do you waste your time on the Phatmass Phorums? Does some small part of you really hope that catholicism is true. and you are just waiting to have your doubt proven wrong? or are you here simply to mock us all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 [quote name='Sirklawd' date='Aug 1 2005, 11:40 AM']hey now! i started this thread and it was locked. no fair! but since we're here, has anyone bothered to ask the really important question? LittleLes. why do you waste your time on the Phatmass Phorums? Does some small part of you really hope that catholicism is true. and you are just waiting to have your doubt proven wrong? or are you here simply to mock us all? [right][snapback]667197[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: Not at all! As I mentioned in my earlier response, I am not locked into any belief system, so I am open to new ideas, further proof, new evidence, better interpretations of the evidence, etc. etc. My religion is a work in progress. And I encounter useful input from a variety of places/persons. But I must say, I do occassionally feel I am wasting my time when I have to read posts which do not present an realistic evidence pertaining to the topic under discussion. Yes, I'd like to believe that classic Catholicism is ture. But, unfortunately, so much myth has gotten mixed with it, a very carefull skeptical approach must be used in evaluating claims and separating fact from fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
point5 Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 LittleLess Please define what it is required to be a member of the Catholic Church. and Show how you fit the criteria since that is your claim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirklawd Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 [quote name='LittleLes' date='Aug 1 2005, 11:49 AM']RESPONSE: Not at all! As I mentioned in my earlier response, I am not locked into any belief system, so I am open to new ideas, further proof, new evidence, better interpretations of the evidence, etc. etc. My religion is a work in progress. And I encounter useful input from a variety of places/persons. But I must say, I do occassionally feel I am wasting my time when I have to read posts which do not present an realistic evidence pertaining to the topic under discussion. Yes, I'd like to believe that classic Catholicism is ture. But, unfortunately, so much myth has gotten mixed with it, a very carefull skeptical approach must be used in evaluating claims and separating fact from fiction. [right][snapback]667214[/snapback][/right] [/quote] thanks for finally explaining atleast a little bit of what and why you believe. honestly, i can respect someone like you who has obviously atleast done your homework. There are plenty of other people out there will will also be like "meh, jesus is teh f4ke" but who just dont care at all and dont want to back up that belief. though, it is, in my view, unfortunate that you have come to the conclusions you are currently at. I hope one day you change it, and believe in catholicism. i will certainly pray for that. in anycase, let me just say that you do infact come off as making fun of us/catholicism at times. *shrug* just letting you know. and i know that we have pulled the sarcasm card a few times too. maybe we can all be more friendly and humble at times. and just a simple reminder to my phello phatmassers, debating the faith with someone of opposing views isnt a contest. If you go into it thinking "i can win/beat them" its not going to work. We must be humble, and have the glory of God be our goal - not personal satisfaction. i know i have to remind myself this every so often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 [quote name='point5' date='Aug 1 2005, 12:16 PM']LittleLess Please define what it is required to be a member of the Catholic Church. and Show how you fit the criteria since that is your claim [right][snapback]667255[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: (1) Belief in a supreme being or at least a supreme guiding principle of goodness. (2) Acting in accordance with one's conscience ( formed carefully). I believe that these are the two basic requirements contained in the Catechism. CCC# 781 At all times and in every race, anyone who fears God and does what is right has been acceptable to him. If the Catholic Church claims that ONLY members of the Catholic Church can be saved, yet those who believe in a supreme being and act in accordance with their conscience can be saved, then those who believe in a supreme being and who act in accordance with their conscience, are, by the Church's definition, (at least informal but true )members of the Catholic Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 [quote name='Sirklawd' date='Aug 1 2005, 12:46 PM']thanks for finally explaining atleast a little bit of what and why you believe. honestly, i can respect someone like you who has obviously atleast done your homework. There are plenty of other people out there will will also be like "meh, jesus is teh f4ke" but who just dont care at all and dont want to back up that belief. though, it is, in my view, unfortunate that you have come to the conclusions you are currently at. I hope one day you change it, and believe in catholicism. i will certainly pray for that. in anycase, let me just say that you do infact come off as making fun of us/catholicism at times. *shrug* just letting you know. and i know that we have pulled the sarcasm card a few times too. maybe we can all be more friendly and humble at times. and just a simple reminder to my phello phatmassers, debating the faith with someone of opposing views isnt a contest. If you go into it thinking "i can win/beat them" its not going to work. We must be humble, and have the glory of God be our goal - not personal satisfaction. i know i have to remind myself this every so often. [right][snapback]667308[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: Well said, Sirklawd. I hope I don't come across as sarcastic, but every once in awhile someone really sets themselves up for a humorous retort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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