Female bishops in the Anglican Church

[conservativecatholic]

I apologize for instigating a topic that may have already been discussed, but I believe that this is very interesting...

[quote]LONDON (CNS) -- A Catholic bishop said Anglican clerics opposed to the ordination of women bishops should not be received into the Catholic Church for "negative reasons."

Bishop Declan Lang of Clifton, one of England's leading Catholic ecumenists, spoke amid rising speculation that the vote taken by the Church of England July 11 to remove legal obstacles to the episcopal ordination of women would lead to mass defections of traditionalist clergy.

Bishop Lang, co-chairman of the English Anglican-Roman Catholic Committee, a group that meets twice a year to promote ecumenical projects and the joint study of theology, said mechanisms existed within the English Catholic Church to receive married Anglican ministers and even to ordain them as Catholic priests.

"When there was the ordination of women in the first place there were some Anglicans who applied to be received into the Catholic Church, and the same provision is there at the moment," he told Catholic News Service July 12. "But there is an understanding that you don't come into the Catholic Church for a negative reason.

"Those Anglican priests who were received into the church were received for positive reasons -- for example, that they accepted the teaching authority of the church," he said.

About 400 English Anglican clerics converted to Catholicism after the General Synod of the Church of England voted to ordain women in 1992, and a number of them -- married and single -- became Catholic priests.

The vote for women bishops has led to predictions of more defections, with Anglican Bishop Andrew Burnham of Ebbsfleet telling The Sunday Times newspaper July 10 that he would join the Catholic Church along with about 800 Anglican ministers if the Church of England failed to provide a "third province" with an all-male clergy.

The two provinces in the Church of England are Canterbury and York, established during the Anglo-Saxon period by St. Augustine and St. Paulinus. A third province would require an archbishop and would be totally autonomous from, but in communion with, other Anglican churches throughout the world.

Bishop Lang said he did not think the decisive vote by all three houses of the General Synod of the Church of England, meeting at York University, would harm relations between the Catholic and Anglican churches.

"Our conversations will continue," he said.

Anglican Bishop Tom Butler of Southwark said during the debate that the Church of England should not be deterred by its relations with Catholics.

"The Church of England, catholic and reformed, has before acted prophetically for the wider church: The vernacular liturgy, married clergy, have all been pioneered by our church and have proved to be a blessing to other communions also," Bishop Butler said. "The same I believe will be true of women's orders, which we are pioneering."

The vote means that women could be ordained bishops in England within seven years.

Fourteen of the world's 38 Anglican churches already have decided to allow women bishops.

The Rev. David Houlding, leader of the Anglo-Catholic group of the General Synod, told the British Broadcasting Corp. radio July 12 that he feared the unity of the Anglican Communion would be damaged as a result of the vote.

"We need proper provision for people who do not agree with that decision to stay within the Church of England," he said.

But Christina Reese of the campaign group Women and the Church told the same program that such a move would result only in an "ecclesiastical ghetto."

"We have had women priests for over 11 years, and it's normal now for people to see women as part of the clergy," she said.

William Oddie, author of "The Roman Option," a 1997 book about the defections from the Church of England after women began to be ordained in 1994, told CNS July 11 that it was "ludicrous to say you can't have women bishops" if it was accepted that women could be ordained as priests.

Oddie, a former Anglican minister who converted to Catholicism in the 1980s, said that in the 1990s some disaffected Anglicans made contact with Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, head of the Vatican's doctrinal congregation, about a possible "parallel jurisdiction," and the future Pope Benedict XVI was said to have been sympathetic.

Such a parallel jurisdiction, Oddie said, would mean that the former Anglicans would be in communion with the Catholic Church but would be under the authority of their own bishop.

"This pope might accept a separate body which is outside the jurisdiction of the English Catholic bishops," Oddie said, adding that he thought the vote would mean many Anglican ministers would be "coming to Rome one way or another."

"They have been asking for a third province, and it is possible that they could be offered that rather than go to Rome," said Oddie. "Personally, I think Rome ought to outbid them (the Anglican bishops) and say 'Come to us, we are here for you.'"
[/quote]

William Oddie's idea of welcoming the Anglican clerics with open arms into the Holy Roman Catholic Church is one of brilliance and common sense. Hundreds of Anglican priests flocked to the Church after the Anglican Communion's 1992 decision to ordain women as priests. It is a perfect time for the Catholic Church to make a move since it is quite obvious that as the Anglican Church becomes more liberal, ecuminism fails to work effectively. Unity between the Churches seems quite difficult now so in the mean time, the Catholic Church should welcome those who desire to return home to Rome. The Church is strengthening in England!

Edited July 27, 2005 by conservativecatholic

[dspen2005]

I share the bishop's concern over the massive defections by Anglicans over women bishops. While I would be excited at Prots recognizing and realizing the error of their position, I want conversions to be genuine -- in that a complete conversion in recognizing ALL of the doctrines and dogmas of the Holy MOther Church. If these "defections" are based simply on the disagreement with Anglican church in ordaining women as bishops, then such a conversion should be looked upon with skepticism and concern.

[qfnol31]

I would say it's a positive reason...we have the Apostolic Tradition of men Priests/Bishops...which for some proves the Truth held in the Church.

[dspen2005]

as a side question -- do the Orthodox possess the 'fullness' of the Faith?

[Oik]

I of course support the Bishop, for he addresses an important point. Namely, one should not "hide" in the Church (which of course says something about what the Church means to people that they would seek sanctuary in it in the midst of so much modern criticism). One should be Catholic if one truly believes in the Faith.


On a side note here, I don't think the Bishop is discounting the reality that for some, this might be the eye-opener that starts the whells turning toward the authentic road of inner conversion.

[Laudate_Dominum]

I say it's better to have them in for less than perfect reasons than to not have them in the Church at all. Chances are they are more Catholic already than many "Catholics" out there.

[Apotheoun]

I think that any priest who wants to leave the Anglican "Church" over the issue of the ordination of women should be immediately received into communion with the Catholic Church. The reason that these men want to leave Anglicanism isn't negative, quite the contrary, it is positive, i.e., it is the recognition that women cannot validly receive sacred orders. It also shows that they have a good grasp on the Catholic doctrine of the ministerial priesthood. They should be received into the Catholic Church as soon as possible.

On a related note, I am becoming increasingly concerned by the statements of Catholic officials who say that the continued divergence of the Anglican communion from historic Christian orthodoxy will not effect the ecumenical dialogue between the Catholic Church and the Anglican communion. This seems rather nonsensical, and also appears to show a false irenic viewpoint on the part of the Catholic officials involved in the dialogue, because they appear to be afraid to say that an action by the Anglican communion, which is clearly heretical, has any adverse consequences in the relations between the two communities.

[qfnol31]

^ He's just better at explaining what I said. :

Edited July 29, 2005 by qfnol31

[qfnol31]

By the way, ecumenism partly is finding out what it is that is no longer loved in the Church and partly bringing those that love it back to her truth...