Civil Rights

[Carrie]

[url="http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/330467p-282344c.html"]Subway Searches - Story here[/url]


Due to the recent bombings in London, NYC police officers have been patrolling the subways.

Starting today, now they're doing bag searches.

As a straphanger, I'm really concerned about this. While safety and precaution is important, I feel this is a real invasion. What's next?

Are we slowly allowing our government to take away our civil rights in the name of safety?

[photosynthesis]

civil rights are different than civil liberties... but anyway...

when i was working in NYC last summer and taking the subway all the time, I don't think it once crossed my mind that a terrorist could come onto the subway with a bomb, leave it in the car and get off on the next stop. Maybe I'm just a naive Jersey girl, but I just didn't think about it. Maybe it was because i was too worried about getting anthrax because i was working for a major news organization.

But i definitely think about it now, and if the NYPD wants to search peoples' bags before they get onto the subway, I don't think I would have a problem with that.

[Nathan]

In times of war like this, we all sacrifice certain freedoms that we take for granted -- that's just the way it is. If getting my bag looked into once in awhile means safer subways, I'm all for it.

[Carrie]

As a native NYer and one who takes the subway every single day, I can say most of us are very aware of the danger of terrorism and the subway.

Yes, the possibility of an attack is frightening, but does this mean that we should allow a constant invasion of privacy?

I personally don't think so. It seems that Big Brother is watching more and more in the name of safety. I'm very uncomfortable with this.

The chances of someone pushing me in front of an oncoming subway car is greater than the chances of dying by a terrorist attack. I think we need to be viligant but not invasive.

What else will be allowed in the name of safety?

[Carrie]

[quote name='Nathan' date='Jul 22 2005, 11:26 AM']In times of war like this, we all sacrifice certain freedoms that we take for granted -- that's just the way it is. If getting my bag looked into once in awhile means safer subways, I'm all for it.
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[/quote]

I don't think the subway system will be much safer at all. There are millions who take the subway everyday. Do you know how easy it is for people to get by with anything in their bags?

The police can't search everyone. It's just a public attempt at making the public feel safer, while in actuality, does nothing.

Its the same as the police who patrol the subway stations. A train pulls in, they peek in and that's it. That doesn't anything!

Earlier this week, I was on a subway on my way home. There was an unattended bag under a seat. A police officer on the train didn't even notice it!

[Kilroy the Ninja]

Just wait until they require there what they require here for school children - clear backpacks - that way they can see exactly what one has in one's bag.

If it were me (and I could afford to), I'd just take taxis from here on out. But I understand that is far more expensive than the subway (taxis are certainly more expensive here than the bus!).

Wonder how many people will just take a taxi?

[Cam42]

[quote name='Kilroy the Ninja' date='Jul 22 2005, 11:30 AM']Just wait until they require there what they require here for school children - clear backpacks - that way they can see exactly what one has in one's bag.

If it were me (and I could afford to), I'd just take taxis from here on out.  But I understand that is far more expensive than the subway (taxis are certainly more expensive here than the bus!).

Wonder how many people will just take a taxi?
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[/quote]

Most department stores, such as Nordstrom and Marshall Field's, already require that of their employees. Has been a loss prevention issue since long before 9/11.

[Carrie]

[quote name='Kilroy the Ninja' date='Jul 22 2005, 12:30 PM']Just wait until they require there what they require here for school children - clear backpacks - that way they can see exactly what one has in one's bag.

If it were me (and I could afford to), I'd just take taxis from here on out.  But I understand that is far more expensive than the subway (taxis are certainly more expensive here than the bus!).

Wonder how many people will just take a taxi?
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[/quote]

Well, there are 4.5 million people who take the subways everyday. I don't think there are enough taxis!

Even so, I couldn't afford a taxi ride to work. It's 2 bucks per subway ride...a taxi ride from my home to my job is 20. I'd never eat again.

And as for the clear backpacks, I think I'd have a fit!

[Quietfire]

My job just started a program where we are required to remove our locks from our lockers at the end of our shifts and take the contents of our lockers home with us in an attempt to cut back on loss prevention.

personally, I think its stupid. The items I keep in my locker are company property. No, Im not stealing them. They are tools I need everyday to do my job.
So how am I helping to cut back on loss prevention if I am taking company property home with me everyday. Eh?

That one stumped even our highest management officials.

I offered instead to either give them a spare key to my lock or provide them with the combination so they can do their periodic checks. They are checking into this with corporate.

Pax

[White Knight]

We've been losing rights since 1962.. and its getting worse.

Freedom of Speech is now in Debate [b](It souldn't be inless in really odd cases)[/b]

Freedom of Religion is being attacked [b](folks dennouncing our history, our beliefs and such is under attack.)[/b]

The fact that the Government is playing both sides of the table is really hurting us.

[Norseman82]

When the city seizes your house to put up a Wal-Mart or Krispy Kreme you will have your answer first-hand.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Carrie' date='Jul 22 2005, 07:26 AM']Yes, the possibility of an attack is frightening, but does this mean that we should allow a constant invasion of privacy?
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[/quote]
Although I can understand your concerns, I can see what would happen if an attack killed a few thousand people in the NY subway or on the SF Bart system. Immediately the media and a large number of citizens would declare that the government didn't do enough to protect the innocent lives lost in the attack. Now I suppose that if you are willing to take the risk with the lives of your loved ones and not complain if a member of your family is killed, then more power to you. At least you can console yourself with the fact that you have protected your "right" to privacy.

[Carrie]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jul 22 2005, 02:02 PM']Although I can understand your concerns, I can see what would happen if an attack killed a few thousand people in the NY subway or on the SF Bart system.  Immediately the media and a large number of citizens would declare that the government didn't do enough to protect the innocent lives lost in the attack.  Now I suppose that if you are willing to take the risk with the lives of your loved ones and not complain if a member of your family is killed, then more power to you.  At least you can console yourself with the fact that you have protected your "right" to privacy.
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Harsh.

My point is that the government should not be allowed to continually take away rights and liberties in the name of safety.

Especially when the tactics they are using are really not effective at all.

They will not be able to check the bags of 4.5 million subway riders each and everyday.

When will it be too much? When will people protest? Today its checking bags on the subway...tomorrow its an implanted chip.

If a member of my family is killed, I have the right to be angry at the terrorists and their faulty views. But I will never claim that subway bag checks would have saved their lives. It's ridiculous to think so.


Remember the officer who "checked" the subway car and failed to see the unattended bag. Its not a working system.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Carrie' date='Jul 22 2005, 10:25 AM']Harsh.[/quote]
I don't see my comments as harsh at all.  If hundreds of people are killed who could have been saved if the government had taken some sort of action, say by searching backpacks and things like that, I think such searches are perfectly reasonable.

I would hate to know that hundreds of people died while riding BART because I didn't want my backpack searched.

[infinitelord1]

the only thing that separates the USA from any other socialist country is free enterprize. People like George W. Bush, who make up 5% of the nations population control 95% of the nations wealth. So, yea, you might as well call us a socialist country.