Semperviva Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 I don't know if anyone has ever brought this up before, but if a person has every intention of comnitting a sin, any sin, or maybe not every intention but has pretty much given over to the idea of sinning say i was like p yeah i think i'm gonna kill my sister now and then something interupts say actual grace disguised as a phone call or something haha... but seriously ... say you thought yes i'm pretty sure i am going to kill her but then you don't... and then after the phone call you decide not to and you look back and wonder if you haden't been interupted if you would re-decided sin is an act of the will and if I did will to kill her... am i guilty of the sin of murder??? but what if that was just step ONE of the reasoning that got interupted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 [quote name='Semperviva' date='Jul 20 2005, 12:39 PM']I don't know if anyone has ever brought this up before, but if a person has every intention of comnitting a sin, any sin, or maybe not every intention but has pretty much given over to the idea of sinning say i was like p yeah i think i'm gonna kill my sister now and then something interupts say actual grace disguised as a phone call or something haha... but seriously ... say you thought yes i'm pretty sure i am going to kill her but then you don't... and then after the phone call you decide not to and you look back and wonder if you haden't been interupted if you would re-decided sin is an act of the will and if I did will to kill her... am i guilty of the sin of murder??? but what if that was just step ONE of the reasoning that got interupted... [right][snapback]651103[/snapback][/right] [/quote] No, you're not guilty. God gives us plenty of opportunity to change our minds and repent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 What did your sister do??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semperviva Posted July 20, 2005 Author Share Posted July 20, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Jul 20 2005, 12:49 PM']What did your sister do??? [right][snapback]651114[/snapback][/right] [/quote] hehehe- purely hypothetical situation, never have i felt the urge to murder her before!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 *whew* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 [quote name='Semperviva' date='Jul 20 2005, 02:39 PM']I don't know if anyone has ever brought this up before, but if a person has every intention of comnitting a sin, any sin, or maybe not every intention but has pretty much given over to the idea of sinning say i was like p yeah i think i'm gonna kill my sister now and then something interupts say actual grace disguised as a phone call or something haha... but seriously ... say you thought yes i'm pretty sure i am going to kill her but then you don't... and then after the phone call you decide not to and you look back and wonder if you haden't been interupted if you would re-decided sin is an act of the will and if I did will to kill her... am i guilty of the sin of murder??? but what if that was just step ONE of the reasoning that got interupted... [right][snapback]651103[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Intent is part of sin, you might be guilty of unjust anger, but since you didn't go through with the sin, then you are not guilty of that sin.... now, say if you were locked up for the rest of your life and you wanted to kill your sister and you died wanting to kill your sister, then you would be guilty of the sin. Not sure what sin that you are in a dilemma with, but if it involves someone else, remember that we must forgive everything and everyone if we want to be forgiven by God when we die.... this includes the most horrible sins against us.... this includes people like Hitler, Osama Bin Laden, John Kerry, Bill Clinton, Howard Stern, my mother in law, etc... God Bless! ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semperviva Posted July 20, 2005 Author Share Posted July 20, 2005 (edited) [quote name='ironmonk' date='Jul 20 2005, 12:52 PM']Intent is part of sin, you might be guilty of unjust anger, but since you didn't go through with the sin, then you are not guilty of that sin.... now, say if you were locked up for the rest of your life and you wanted to kill your sister and you died wanting to kill your sister, then you would be guilty of the sin. Not sure what sin that you are in a dilemma with, but if it involves someone else, remember that we must forgive everything and everyone if we want to be forgiven by God when we die.... this includes the most horrible sins against us.... this includes people like Hitler, Osama Bin Laden, John Kerry, Bill Clinton, Howard Stern, my mother in law, etc... God Bless! ironmonk [right][snapback]651120[/snapback][/right] [/quote] ahh, ok so its unjust anger you are guilty of, the preliminary sin that comes before the murder....gOTcha [color=red]thanks, man[/color] hahaha- no I refuse to forgive howard stern and thats [b]Just [/b]Anger, hehehe Edited July 20, 2005 by Semperviva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 [quote][b]CCC[/b]: 1872 Sin is an [b]act [/b]contrary to reason. It wounds man's nature and injures human solidarity.[/quote] but then again... [quote][b]CCC[/b]: 1871 Sin is an utterance, a deed, or a [b]desire [/b]contrary to the eternal law (St. Augustine, Faust 22: PL 42, 418).[/quote] I'd say that, no, you would not be guilty of the sin of murder, but you would be guilty of entertaining a desire that is contrary to God's law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semperviva Posted July 20, 2005 Author Share Posted July 20, 2005 [quote name='Pilgrim' date='Jul 20 2005, 12:57 PM']but then again... I'd say that, no, you would not be guilty of the sin of murder, but you would be guilty of entertaining a desire that is contrary to God's law. [right][snapback]651128[/snapback][/right] [/quote] wow so sin isin't only when we will to sin but when we WANT to sin...??? or am i being too broad here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catholic Fanatic Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Let's not water things down people. This person would be guilty of the sin of murder. This person had the desire to kill the person and would have given how you described it. You were wishy washy in your desription, but you have said enough. If the killee was in front of the killer, the killee would have been murdered. Just like after a murder, you can decide it was not a good idea, after a would have murder, you can decide it was not a good idea. Jesus said, he who hates his brother is guilty of murder. If you wanted to kill someone, you must be angry with them, or at any rate you wanted to kill them. If this was you in the hyothetical, you would burn in the fires of hell, where there'd be wailing and gnashing of teeth, if you did not repent from the murder. You would not be released until you have paid the last penny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 [quote name='Semperviva' date='Jul 20 2005, 12:59 PM']wow so sin isin't only when we will to sin but when we WANT to sin...??? or am i being too broad here [right][snapback]651132[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Only when we deliberately entertain or indulge the sinful desire (whether it's of lust, rage, envy, whatever). The temptation itself is never a sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Catholic Fanatic' date='Jul 20 2005, 01:07 PM']Let's not water things down people. This person would be guilty of the sin of murder. This person had the desire to kill the person and would have given how you described it. You were wishy washy in your desription, but you have said enough. If the killee was in front of the killer, the killee would have been murdered. Just like after a murder, you can decide it was not a good idea, after a would have murder, you can decide it was not a good idea. Jesus said, he who hates his brother is guilty of murder. If you wanted to kill someone, you must be angry with them, or at any rate you wanted to kill them. If this was you in the hyothetical, you would burn in the fires of hell, where there'd be wailing and gnashing of teeth, if you did not repent from the murder. You would not be released until you have paid the last penny.[/quote] Goodness, where do I begin... To begin with, no one is "released" from Hell -- Hell is eternal. The passage to which you are referring is a reference to Purgatory, not Hell. No one in Purgatory is damned, in fact, they are in Purgatory because God intends for them to enter Heaven. Also, you're completely ignoring the possibility of repentance. For what you say to be true, one would have to die immediately after committing the sin (the actual [i]act[/i], not merely the [i]thought[/i]) to be damned to hell. Otherwise, God gives him the chance to confess and repent. You have absolutely no place saying anyone is damned - that duty is God's alone. there's so much more that is wrong with your statement... just give me a moment to collect my thoughts. I'm just a little flabbergasted. Edited July 20, 2005 by Pilgrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 [quote name='Pilgrim' date='Jul 20 2005, 01:15 PM']Goodness, where do I begin... To begin with, no one is "released" from hell -- hell is eternal. Also, you're completely ignoring the possibility of repentance. For what you say to be true, one would have to die immediately after committing the sin to be damned to hell. Otherwise, God gives him the chance to confess and repent. You have absolutely no place saying anyone is damned - that duty is God's alone. there's so much more wrong with your statement... just give me a moment to collect my thoughts after being dumbfounded. [right][snapback]651166[/snapback][/right] [/quote] This Fanatic fellow's rather interesting. He recently condemned me to hell for not properly heeding his words regarding penis pills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quietfire Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 (edited) Actually, I do believe, according to Semper's original post, that yes...she would be guilty of sin. You see, she starts to reason it out in the end. BUT< the intent was to cause the death of another human. I have to check on this, but I am pretty sure that this would definitely require a trip to the confessional. Just because there was an interuption in the thought does not exclude the fact that the thought was not only being entertained but accepted as such -yeah, gonna kill her- that the intent was also there. Edited July 20, 2005 by Quietfire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Quietfire' date='Jul 20 2005, 01:21 PM']Actually, I do believe, according to Semper's original post, that yes...she would be guilty of sin. [right][snapback]651176[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Yes, but not the sin of murder. (See my earlier posts) Edited July 20, 2005 by Pilgrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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