Cam42 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 btw....she is Catholic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 [quote]Kennedy, Clinton, Gore, Jesse Jackson had been pro-life up until the early '80s.[/quote] And Bush has never been pro life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Hey Ironmonk...... How do you reconcile this? [quote name='USCCB; Faithful Citizenship: A Catholic Call to Political Responsibility']A Catholic moral framework does not easily fit the ideologies of "right" or "left," nor tthe platforms of any party. Our values are often not "politically correct." Believers are called to be a community of conscience within the larger society and to test public life by the values of Scripture and the principles of Catholic social teaching. Our responsibility is to measure all candidates, policies, parties, and platforms by how they protect or undermine the life, dignity, and rights of the human person?whether they protect the poor and vulnerable and advance the common good.[/quote] That would be from your link. So, being "right" is what we are supposed to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Jul 20 2005, 03:33 PM']And Bush has never been pro life [right][snapback]651362[/snapback][/right] [/quote] C'mon, people, what's the point of this, really? Let's pray for our President and SC justice nominee and move on! Do you really think the country will be more pro-life under Democrat leadership? Given the recent filibusters and such, this argument looks more absurd all the time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 (edited) Here's the point Socrates Ironmonk is making the assertion that to hold to democratic principles, you cannot be considered a true Catholic I wholeheartedly disagree with that. It is wrong for him to suggest that. If it were not for the pro life issue, I would be a registered democrat. The Democrats for Life organization is doing good work. We as Catholics SHOULD SUPPORT IT even if we have disagreements with the rest of the democratic platform. If both parties become pro life, we have no more abortion. To do otherwise is hypocritical to fighting the culture of death! To do otherwise is to say "No I'm a Republican first and a Catholic second" Edited July 20, 2005 by jaime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Jul 20 2005, 04:40 PM']C'mon, people, what's the point of this, really? Let's pray for our President and SC justice nominee and move on! Do you really think the country will be more pro-life under Democrat leadership? Given the recent filibusters and such, this argument looks more absurd all the time! [right][snapback]651379[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Yes, we should pray, but to promote the idea that all Catholics MUST be Republican is absurd. While I am an actual member of the Republican party (I was a precinct chair in the 2004 elections) I will from time to time break party lines and vote for a Democrat. Does that make me a bad Catholic? Don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Thank you Cam and hot stuff for expressing what I am apparently not intelligent enough to express for myself (please see IM's point 4 for reference). Such absurdity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 [quote]As I have stated before... anyone who is a Catholic and insists on voting democrat and being a part of that party fits one or more of the following..... 1.) knows little about our faith 2.) is a fake Catholic 3.) has been dooped by lies 4.) does not possess a high enough intelligence to realize how the modern democrat party agenda is crooked and incompatible with Catholicism[/quote] [quote name='Mission Statement of Democrats for Life of Texas']It is consistent with the root principles of both the Democratic Party and the feminist movement to respect life and to encourage the development of everyone's full potential. The Democratic Party's strong commitment to human rights leads naturally to a pro-life position. Just as we Democrats care about children, the disabled, and the elderly, we care about unborn children and their mothers. What Democrat can embrace the idea that a person's rights can depend upon being "wanted"? At the grass roots level, a large number, perhaps even a majority of Democratic voters, are pro-life. These voters now have a voice within the party.[/quote] I think that these people will disagree with your position too. And that list is one of the most uninformed statements I have ever read, with the possbile exception of michigancatholic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 [quote name='Cam42' date='Jul 20 2005, 03:48 PM']Yes, we should pray, but to promote the idea that all Catholics MUST be Republican is absurd. While I am an actual member of the Republican party (I was a precinct chair in the 2004 elections) I will from time to time break party lines and vote for a Democrat. Does that make me a bad Catholic? Don't think so. [right][snapback]651398[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I don't think the point is that they must be Republican, but rather that they can't in good conscience support the current Democratic Party leadership. On this, I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Jul 20 2005, 05:11 PM']I don't think the point is that they must be Republican, but rather that they can't in good conscience support the current Democratic Party leadership. On this, I agree. [right][snapback]651466[/snapback][/right] [/quote] The point is precisely that. This is what Ironmonk says in the very first post..... [quote]Catholics come out of the evil and join the people's party so you can vote in primaries and we can get good Catholics in office... Republican.[/quote] and a little later..... [quote]The reason why I'm a registered rep is so that I can vote in the primaries and get good Catholic elected.[/quote] and in repsonse to a democrat who wants to join a democratic pro-life organization..... [quote]That is one of the most ignorant statements that I've read in a long time. Ignorance is not bliss.[/quote] Someone say something about ignorant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 [b]Ironmonk[/b], I lean towards the Right-Wing of the political spectrum, but your assumptions were uncalled for. hot stuff, Cam, and Carrie are [b]devout, orthodox Catholics[/b], and all you can do is put them into the same stereotype as ignorant, cafeteria Catholics? There are many Catholics who are ignorant of the faith, and/or vote for Democratic canidates because of such, but this doesn't apply to everyone. [b]You know[/b] there are exceptions, [b]you know[/b] not everyone is the same, [b]you know[/b] that just because someone prefers to remain in the Democratic party and try to change it for the better (instead of destroying it), doesn't mean they're not a devout, orthodox, Catholic. The [b]Democrats For Life[/b] organization is a noble effort to turn the party around, instead of abandoning it and leaving it to the wolves. [b]Note:[/b] I do not endorse Catholics voting for pro-abortion canidates of anykind, either Democrat or Republican. As long as those in the Democrats For Life organization are keeping this in mind, it's just prime with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Well said Paladin D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Just Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 There may be some democrats for life, but that party has gone wacko and anti-christian. Howard Dean himself attacked our bishops and priests for being conservative and telling catholics not to vote for pro-choice candidates. 60-70 years ago, catholics were mostly democrat, because it was a different party then. Catholics do not belong in that party today, because it's an enemy of their faith. There is way too much hipocracy and moral laxity in that party today. ` It is very liberal (way too open minded) and opens doors for the evil one., and has already opened many doors for him. Now I'm not saying the republican party is full of saints, but i am saying that now a days the majority of Orthodox roman catholics are republican, the ones that are democrat are mostly liberal, except for the few democrats for life. I think Im going to stay away from debating in this place, because there is just way too many different mindstates here. So Catholics are suppose to be "one" I'd like to see that here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 [quote name='MC Just' date='Jul 20 2005, 08:16 PM']There may be some democrats for life, but that party has gone wacko and anti-christian. Howard Dean himself attacked our bishops and priests for being conservative and telling catholics not to vote for pro-choice candidates. 60-70 years ago, catholics were mostly democrat, because it was a different party then. Catholics do not belong in that party today, because it's an enemy of their faith. There is way too much hipocracy and moral laxity in that party today. ` It is very liberal (way too open minded) and opens doors for the evil one., and has already opened many doors for him. Now I'm not saying the republican party is full of saints, but i am saying that now a days the majority of Orthodox roman catholics are republican, the ones that are democrat are mostly liberal, except for the few democrats for life. I think Im going to stay away from debating in this place, because there is just way too many different mindstates here. So Catholics are suppose to be "one" I'd like to see that here. [right][snapback]651733[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I respect the fact that you don't want to debate, but I am going to respond to your statement. If you choose to respond, great, if not, great. Here is what I think of your position. While the Democratic Party is getting more and more liberal, that doesn't mean that is the whole of the party. There are some very conservative Democrats out there. Zell Miller, Ben Nelson, and many of the "Blue Dog Democrats." They are all main stream Democrats. To make the statement that Catholics don't belong in ANY particular party is disingenious, precisely because of what I quoted from the USCCB above. (Thanks again Ironmonk, for that little tidbit ) I believe that some Democrats can be and are good Catholics. Just as Protestants can be good Republicans. Just as good Catholics can be Republican and so on..... So, now we don't only have the DFL, but now we also have the "[url="http://www.house.gov/cardoza/BlueDogs/members.htm"]Blue Dogs[/url]." These people don't get elected to their offices by magic (as I duck my head looking for Harry Potter to strike me dead). So, I think that it ok to be a Democrat and be Catholic, but I do think that it is also important to remember that Democrats and Republicans don't have to vote the party line. As I have said, I am a member of the Republican Party and I certainly don't vote a straight party ticket. And I have never EVER been encouraged to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted July 21, 2005 Author Share Posted July 21, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Cam42' date='Jul 20 2005, 05:48 PM']Yes, we should pray, but to promote the idea that all Catholics MUST be Republican is absurd.. [right][snapback]651398[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I don't recall writing that a Catholic must be republican, if I wrote such a thing, please show me. Don't show me your assumptions that lack a reasonable amount of thought. Dear God, Thank you for the high IQ, and I ask that you grace me with patience in dialoging with those that have been blessed with big hearts and little brains. Amen. God Bless ironmonk Edited July 21, 2005 by ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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