hyperdulia again Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Mulls, You also should understand that we think the religion you belong to is false. I for one cannot in good conscience say that people should be converted from a flat-out lie, to a perversion of the Truth and taht is what Protestantism is. They are both false. They are both lies and if one is going to believe a lie I don't think it necessarily improves the situation to go from believing a lie about Krishna to go to believing a lie about Jesus. sincerely, MXZ Post Script: I gave my opinion not necessarily that of the Church, and if anyone can demonstrate how that's out of line with the Bride's teaching I'll changge my mind quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 How about this: "Who ever is not against us is for us, and who ever is not for us is against us". or how about this: "With God all things are possible". I mean, I believe people can be saved through Catholicism, and at this point, I believe Catholicism is a "perversion" of the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 You're right dUSt. Maybe not "Perfect" knowledge. I guess it can't be proven either way. But there is growth. this can be proven. I mean, the Catechism states that the Church Triumphant are constantly interceding for us, the Church militant. Therefore, if I die in disbelief of intersession, then I would necessarily have to undergo some type of learning (either in Purgatory or in Heaven) in order to be a part of that. And obviously once I'm in Purgatory and feel the effects of all ya'lls prayers for me (including the intercession of the Queen of Heaven), then not only will I have grown in knowledge of intercession, but also in knowledge of our Blessed Mother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest holdenslusher Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Catholicism is the one christian denomination that has been surpassed throughout the 2000 or so years since christ died, and I think that this is what many protestants need to see because the bible is a source for some teachings but it has to be interpreted by humans which all usually have different opinions, i'd say that because of this we as catholics can trust the church because it's founders were people who experienced christ's teachings and often asked him questions and recieved first hand answers. Protestantism is good i think in that it limits some of the power of catholic clergy because although the church is being guided by jesus they are still human and they do sin. I have been raised catholic and have participated in many non-denominational groups but after extensive research i found jesus and his true teachings in the catholic doctrine. I now have extensive knowledge of what catholicism is but i think that our problem is that only about half of the catholics know this. Vatican II is so important in this aspect because it gives new responsibilities to the laity, and i am hoping that i can now contribute to the spread and global understanding of catholicism starting with people who are catholic but are either inactive or really do not know why they are catholic. Salvation is in front of us and we are blessed to know this. I have travelled to places and met people who are catholic and know about the church's true meaning but they are scared to practice their faith because of controlling governments. Lets be thankful we have the freedom to worship and the knowledge of the church. I pray for you all and for myself and that the catholic faith will make this world a better place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 I mean, I believe people can be saved through Catholicism, and at this point, I believe Catholicism is a "perversion" of the truth. What you just stated is this: "I believe people can be saved through a "perversion" of the truth." Truly mind boggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 What you just stated is this: "I believe people can be saved through a "perversion" of the truth." Truly mind boggling. well, if you believe that protestants can be saved, don't you hold the same thing to be true? aren't we (protestants) believing in a perversion of the truth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 Anna, Why'd you delete it? I read it and then went to the Catechism and changed my mind from my previous post. I don't think were enlightened in Purgatory, we just lose the qualities that kept us dumb and made us unable to learn or to be filled with enlightenment. You changed my mind. Hi Jas, Thank you for your kind words. I've been away most of the day, and didn't get a chance to re-post. The reason I deleted it was that I had to leave the house and I didn't have enough time to figure out how to get the doggone quotes to be interspersed in those nifty little boxes between my comments like the rest of you folks can! (I am such a computer dummy!) I'll re-post the remarks I made, but I'll put the quotes in blue, cause I still can't get the box thingy to come out right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 See what I mean? What am I doing wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 When and if we get to heaven we will enjoy the beatific vision of God. This includes full knowledge and understanding. Those in purgatory have to wait until the cleansing burning process is over, because nothing with sin can enjoy this vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRose Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 Well, I'll propably get called a heretic for this, but... Non-Catholic Christian religions aren't necessarily a perversion of the Truth. The lack the Fullness of the Truth. There are certain Truths that are contained and taught in non-Catholic denominations. What Truth is there is by the Grace of God. It is better to teach what Truth you know then teach no Truth if you don't think you have it all. It is no good to purposely teach a perversion of the Truth and it is wrong to say all Truth in non-Catholic religion is perverted. There is a big difference between some of the Perfect Truth and the Fullness of the Truth. We are saved by Grace. Who is given more, more is expected. If someone is only graced enough to be a Baptist, then it is their duty to seek all the grace made available in that religion. Two things come to mind: The Sacrament of Baptism, and Scripture. Take their version of the Scripture. They do have most of the New and Old Testament that contains a large amoung of God's word. They recieve the Holy Spirit in Baptism too. It may be enough grace to carry them through. It's obviously much better to have all the graces made availabe to us in the Fullness of the Truth in the Catholic Church. Even the Church does not invade a man's inner conscience where God speaks to us directly (through Grace I might add). A little charity and love is needed here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 It is better to teach what Truth you know then teach no Truth if you don't think you have it all. A little charity and love is needed here. Hi Blue Rose, I agree with almost everything you said, except the one quote. That's because it's kind of like saying that Truth is relative (not absolute.) What is Truth for the Catholic Church is Truth universally. What is Truth for protestant denominations varies from one denomination to the next, and every one of them thinks they've got Truth...What they have is a mixture of error and Truth, and when evangelizing, they bring others to accept this combination of error and Truth. So, it's hard for me to say, in all honesty and sincerity, that prosletyzing protestant ideologies is a good thing to do. For the good of souls, I would wish them the very best that there is to offer. The very best is the Church that Christ founded, the pillar and foundation of Truth. :wub: Pax Christi. <>< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 well, if you believe that protestants can be saved, don't you hold the same thing to be true? aren't we (protestants) believing in a perversion of the truth? There's a big difference. I believe Protestants can be saved, but not through Protestantism. I don't think it's Biblical for someone to be saved through a "perversion of truth", as Bro Adam puts it. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 i don't think anybody can be saved through protestantism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 i don't think anybody can be saved through protestantism. Okay. Great. Let's start the word play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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