Questions For The Cathlics...

[flip]

i want yall's thought son the following:

Is there such a thing as evangelical Catholics? Is there anything wrong with this?

What about clapping and singing charamatically in mass? (The dopest Catholic church is St. Bart's in Ft. Worth. Catholic. Charasmatic. Amazing.)

is there anything wrong with contemporary worship songs in the Catholic church?

Is there anything wrong with half prot/ half Catholic hip hop groups such as Mars Ill or my crew, Point 5 Covenant?

Do you think that the Catholic church is what it should be? Are YOU, as a person, totally happy with the state of the church?

Do yall think that there is salvation outside the Catholic church? Does one have to be Catholic (and only Catholic) to enter the Kindom of God? Do you think that there will be Catholics in hell? Is there salvation in the protestant church, or will they enter the gates of hell?

are protestant churches truly wasting thier time?

Is it ok to be Catholic and not believe every fact of the Catholic church?

Has the Catholic church been totally spotless and without sin (as a whole) in all of it's history? Has the church made mistakes? If the church has, why do you think they have made mistakes?

thank you for your time. i love all of you

[mulls]

hey flip,

I'm protestant too, and I will try to answer your questions, just to see how much I've learned and if I have a good handle on things here.

There's nothing wrong with evangelical Catholics, evangelizing is spreading the Gospel, that's what everybody is called to do.

The charismatic movement seems to be undecided in these parts. As long as people don't get 'too' emotional, or the service doesn't fall too far away from the traditional liturgy, it's pretty much ok.

Contemporary worship songs...i'm not sure, it may go against tradition.

Nothing wrong with the half prot half Catholic group, as long as the prots don't try to witness to the Catholics.

Most of the people are extremely satisfied with the state of the Church. There will always be sinners within the Church, but the Church herself is incorruptible and 'the gates of hell will never prevail against Her.'

There can be salvation outside of the Catholic church. It's called baptism by desire...I believe it's when one doesn't know the fullness of Catholic truth, yet they strive to be what God wants them to be as much as they can, by following the Word and/or what God has written on their hearts. However, if you recognize Catholic truth and openly reject it, salvation may be hard to come by. Yes, there will be Catholics and hell, and protestants in heaven.

Protestant churches are not wasting their time...they are just extremely misguided and misled, ignorant to the truth of Catholocism. Most protestant have good hearts and seek God fully and truthfully. But beware of the Catholic-bashing protestants...the devil has a grip on them.

You are supposed to believe every fact of the Catholic church, or you are a 'schismatic' or ' heretic.' If you do not agree with every Catholic teaching, you should at least admit that the Catholic church is incorruptible and its teachings are all for the better, even the ones you disagree with.

People in the Church have made mistakes, but the Church itself never has. (I still don't fully grasp this idea, but i'm sure it will be explained.)

ok people, how did I do?

[Jake Huether]

"Is there such a thing as evangelical Catholics? Is there anything wrong with this?"

If you're talking about Catholic divisions or denominations, NO. But there are Catholics who evangelize. And that is not wrong at all.

"What about clapping and singing charamatically in mass? (The dopest Catholic church is St. Bart's in Ft. Worth. Catholic. Charasmatic. Amazing.)"

There are certain Mass' which include Charazmatic clapping and singing. However, this isn't a different Mass. They are all the same as far as structure goes (i.e. 1st Reading, 2nd Reading, Gospel Reading, Eucharistic Prayer, etc.). There are certian parts during the Mass that can be changed or addapted, but there are certain parts that can NEVER change.

"is there anything wrong with contemporary worship songs in the Catholic church?"

Nothing wrong at all! But like I said, they must be sung at the appropriate time.

"Is there anything wrong with half prot/ half Catholic hip hop groups such as Mars Ill or my crew, Point 5 Covenant?"

Not at all! That is of course if the lyrics and messages are True.

"Do you think that the Catholic church is what it should be? Are YOU, as a person, totally happy with the state of the church?"

YES! Woooowhoooo. The Catholic Church is the Perfect, Stainless, Bride of Christ. I am less than satisfied with the individuals inside the Church, they're all a bunch of sinners - just like St. Peter was. But the Church teaches nothing but the Truth!

"Do yall think that there is salvation outside the Catholic church? Does one have to be Catholic (and only Catholic) to enter the Kindom of God?"

No and Yes. There is a question though of whether or not that particular individual thinks they're Cathlic or not. You may be protestant by name, and you may love God with all your heart as a protestant may, but by the time you make it to the pearly Gates, you'll be Catholic. Why do I say this? Because the Catholic Church teaches the Truth, and in order to get into heaven you must know the Truth. That isn't to say that if you die not knowing the Truth, you will go to hell. No. However, that is why we believe in purgatory. Not only are you cleansed of the stain of sin (not sin - Jesus took that away. the STAIN of sin, like the addiction to it kind of), but you are also given a full knowledge of all the Truthes. You are basically put into a Catechism Class before you enter Heaven so that when you see God in all the Truth, you won't be automatically blown away! So if you die protestant and end up in Heaven, you will have undergone a full conversion.

"Do you think that there will be Catholics in hell?"

Yes. There will be Catholics (by "Catholics" we're talking in name alone) in hell. We are sinners too. And if we don't accept our faith, and reject God till the end, then he will reject us.

"Is there salvation in the protestant church, or will they enter the gates of hell?"

Salvation is not offered through the protestant church - because they do not teach the fullness of Truth. They are not the Church that Christ established.

That is not to say that protestants won't make it to heaven. But if a protestant enters heaven it is by the Grace and Power of Christs Catholic Church.

"are protestant churches truly wasting thier time?"

Absolutly NOT! protestant Churches are bringing people to Christ. Hopefully that is a stepping stone for them to come to know the fullness of Truth that is in the Catholic Church.

Christ said, "Leave them alone! If they are not against me, then they are for me."

"Is it ok to be Catholic and not believe every fact of the Catholic church?"

No! In essence if you are a "Catholic" that doesn't believe every fact of the Catholic Church, then you are a protestant. In order to be truly Catholic, then you must believe as a Catholic.

"Has the Catholic church been totally spotless and without sin (as a whole) in all of it's history? Has the church made mistakes? If the church has, why do you think they have made mistakes?"

The Church has never in Her history made a single mistake. She is the Body of Christ! The Bride of Christ! How can she have stain?

Granted there are sinners in the Church who have made erroneous sins and errors in the name of the Church. But they cannot be considered representative of the Church. When one sins, they act against the Church. The Church stands for the opposit of sin, and therefore cannot herself sin. If you find an occasion where a Pope or Bishop or Priest or Catholic laity has sinned or caused scandle, I urge you to look closely at what the Catholic Church teaches. I can assure you, the Church was not in the err, rather, the Pope, Bishop, or whoever, had gone against the Church at that time.

"thank you for your time. i love all of you"

Welcom flip! We love you too. Hope you stay and learn about our faith, from the horses mouth.

[jasJis]

i want yall's thought son the following:

This is just my opinion and personal understanding. I'm not part of the Magesterium of the Church and have not authority.

Is there such a thing as evangelical Catholics?

Yes

Is there anything wrong with this?

Not if it is not done to teach or do anything against the Doctrines of the Church. Usually it's a Chrismatic worship service during the week. Not usually on Sundays.

What about clapping and singing charamatically in mass?

I think it's great for some. Others are uncomfortable. I belong to a large parish and different styles (Traditional, LifeTeen) of Mass are offered on Sundays. All are well attended and participted in.

is there anything wrong with contemporary worship songs in the Catholic church?

As long as their theology is correct. A contemporary song singing about Once Saved Always Saved would be heretical. And the culture and preferences of the parish should be considered too. Mass is communal worship. It's not good to alienate a large number of people.

Is there anything wrong with half prot/ half Catholic hip hop groups such as Mars Ill or my crew, Point 5 Covenant?

In what context. I don't know you guys. There's nothing wrong with you all unless you undermine Catholic teachings with your songs. I'd go to a concert. Band members in a Catholic Church do not have to be Catholic. The style would also depend on the congregation.

Do you think that the Catholic church is what it should be?

Absolutely. It is the Source and Eternal Fountain of All Grace on Earth.

Are YOU, as a person, totally happy with the state of the church?

Of course not. It's got people like me in it. It's state will be perfect when we're all in Heaven with Christ.

Do yall think that there is salvation outside the Catholic church?

Yes, but very difficult.

Does one have to be Catholic (and only Catholic) to enter the Kindom of God?

Depends upon the definition of Catholic. All who are in a state of Grace in God's judgement is Catholic. Not all members of the Catholic Church on Earth are in that state of Grace.

Do you think that there will be Catholics in hell?

Yes. If they die outside the state of Grace, they'll be in hell. But we're talking about only earthly members of the Catholic Church.

Is there salvation in the protestant church, or will they enter the gates of hell?

Salvation is by Grace. Protestant churches only have limited sources of Grace because some have been rejected like many of the Sacraments, in particular, the Eucharist and Reconcilliation.

are protestant churches truly wasting thier time?

Not all their time, but an awful lot of it. They're kinda like a 3 wheeled car with 2 flats. It may get there, but it's rough.

Is it ok to be Catholic and not believe every fact of the Catholic church?

Of course it is. Believeing everything is perfect Faith which none of us have. Not having strong belief is different than holding a belief in opposition of the Church. One has to accept and work to believe the Catholic Churches Dogma and Doctrines. Discipline should be obeyed and only disagreed with after much effort to learn, discern, and prayer to be obedient to God.

Has the Catholic church been totally spotless and without sin (as a whole) in all of it's history?

It depends upon your definition of the Catholic Church. The Church has perfectly protected and posses all of God's Revalation because of the Holy Spirit who is pefect in God. All of the Humans, including clergy and lay, are sinful and imperfect, but God works perfection through our imperfection.

Has the church made mistakes?

Yes, it's human members have. But it hasn't made mistakes in preserving and handing down the Faith.

If the church has, why do you think they have made mistakes?

Only the people have erred in seeing and obeying the perfection in the Church, but we're learning and getting better.

thank you for your time. i love all of you

Your welcome. God bless you.

[jasJis]

Mulls!

You did better than the majority of my first year confirmation students. I'm impressed with what's God been working through us and you.

Two Chi Ro's up!

[flip]

mmmmm interesting....

also, a more personal question...

my dad has been Catholic all his life. He says he believes everything in the Catholic church.

He also says that he has no idea why he believes everything in the Catholic church. He says that since he was raised Catholic, that is the only reason why he is Catholic. he also says he is a Christian, but he has never read the bible.

I brought up the fact, that if someone wrote you a personal letter, you should read it gain more insight into that person. If you just believe what people tell you, then you are getting a secondary source of information, and the primary source is much better, to expierence Christ, learn about him, and learn the history of his followers.

What do yall think? Is my dad in the wrong? Am I in the wrong? Can one go his whole life and be a Christian but never read the bible on a personal level?

[MC Just]

Mulls, great Job. The Church itself the Foundation is perfect and Incorrupt (Spotless) (The teachings and Doctrines, Apostolic Trafition) because it was founded by God, the people of the Church are sinners they are not perfect and they do make mistakes but no matter how many times the people mess up the Church is the same Spotless bride of Christ. The church also is not only "A community of Believers" but it is Authoritive it has a Earthly head that keeps the body together. I hope this helps.

[MC Just]

The early Church didnt have bibles to read at a personal level. The idea that the Bible is everything came out in the 1500's. We are taught and read the bible at Church. If you go every sunday you will have the whole bible read to you in 3 years, if you go everyday you will have it read to you in a year. We are taught the Whole of Scriptures there's really no need to personally interpret it. This is how the Church taught for 2000 years. There are Catholics who arent very educated in the Faith, yeah they believe because they were taught that they have to, but they were also taught to learn about the Faith and the Scriptures. Some do some don't.

Reading the bible doesnt make you a Christian, there were Christians in the world before a whole bible was even put together. Jesus and the Apostles used the Ot that we Catholics use today, with the Seven books that Luther removed inclduded. Jesus had many other things that he did and taught that werent written down. It was passed on by Word of mouth. It's the same with the Ot before it was written. So the Church teaches that there is more to Christianity than a Bible.

Edited July 16, 2003 by Mc-Just†

[flip]

The early Church didnt have bibles to read at a personal level. The idea that the Bible is everything came out in the 1500's. We are taught and read the bible at Church. If you go every sunday you will have the whole bible read to you in 3 years, if you go everyday you will have it read to you in a year. We are taught the Whole of Scriptures there's really no need to personally interpret it.

but Just,

if there is no need to personally interet scripture, than how is it interpreted to humans? does the Priest, or Pope, or any other human have to interpret it? Is it wrong to read the bible then, and personally interpret it, since we are not ordained?

all this just seems so impersonal, and I thought God was a very peronal Creator.

[jasJis]

God's word is interpreted to people through the Church and directly to your heart. Even though God speaks to us directly, we also have the Church to guide us and keep us as one. It's kinda like the 'glue' that gathers us as One Body in the One Faith.

God works with us personally, and with the us as a Flock. It's both. Christ will go and find the lost sheep personally, but He then carries them back to the protection, comfort, and aid of the flock.

[MC Just]

Well what is happening with Protestantism? It's breaking up into thousands of sects and denominations because of their personal interpretations. The Catholic church is one because it doesnt give every member the right to do whatever they want. If one wants to be Catholic then they must accept the Churches authority and Interpretation. Which binds them all together in "One Faith" "One Baptism" "One Lord" "One Church" There is no order in Protestantism. We can read the bible. but to sit there and start adding your own theories and ideas to it? That is what Protestantism is. We would just rather have it taught to us then to just take it into our own hands. The Scriptures warn us of such things.

God Bless you Flip and thanks for being here with us.

Edited July 16, 2003 by Mc-Just†

[Joyful]

Does your dad go to mass every sunday? If so he hears the almost ENTIRE bible throughout the course of three years because of the way the Catholic mass is set up. Not that this is an excuse for him not learning more about his faith.

There are lots of other ways to learn about Christ besides just reading the bible (not that I'm saying you shouldn't read the bible because you should). Traditions are passed down from generation to generation and maintained by the Catholic church. In example, the bible, in a sense is tradition. Way back when, a Catholic council (actually a couple of councils and in case you don't know a council is like a meeting but more official! ) convened and read many many many writings and then choose the books that would be in the bible. They did this through much prayer and research. Have you ever thought about why you accept the books in the bible as being the one's you read? It's because you are willing to accept this tradition. We have tons of other traditions worked into Sunday mass. It's amazing to think that every Sunday when I go to mass I'm doing some of the same things that Jesus' disciples did. In my opinion, this makes me incredibly close to Christ. Secondly, reading the writings of the earliest Christians helps us to get much closer to Christ. Reading these writings teaches us so much about how the early church interpreted Jesus' life and death and resurrection. It's just a wealth of knowledge.

Soooooo I'd encourage your dad to get to know Christ. How he chooses to do that, well the possibilities are endless. You could definitely tell him to join Phatmass!

God Bless you flip!

[Joyful]

I also think another reason individuals shouldn't be the sole interpreters is because some people don't have the mental capacity to read something and understand it. Do you think that God being such a personal God would say the only the way to get to know me is through scripture which some of my creation can't understand? I don't. That's why God gave us an authority on the bible: THE Church and in such it doesn't matter if I know Hebrew or aramaic or whatever because the Church has already researched all of that and tells me what it all means.

On the other hand, you can definitely read the bible for personal interpretation in terms of relating it to your own life. Just not for you to decide doctrinal issues.

[mulls]

Jas and Just,

thanks for the compliments, i'm just glad i seem to be understanding things around here. but don't be fooled into thinking I believe them!

[dUSt]

He also says that he has no idea why he believes everything in the Catholic church. He says that since he was raised Catholic, that is the only reason why he is Catholic. he also says he is a Christian, but he has never read the bible.

If he goes to mass, then he reads the Bible. Also, the mass lets us get more personal and intimate with God than anything else ever could. We are participating in the last supper! The final sacrifice! We touch and consume the body and blood of Christ. How more personal and intimate can you get than that!?

:wub:

Catholics can also get more personal with Christ by knowing his family. We know his mother too. Think about it. Your best friend--did you feel closer to him before or after you met his mom and family? I think that a lot of Protestants ignore the fact that Jesus has a family (all of us--me and you--the communion of saints). By growing in love with his family, we are truly growing in out love of Christ. It strengthens our love--it doesn't take it away.

I brought up the fact, that if someone wrote you a personal letter, you should read it gain more insight into that person. If you just believe what people tell you, then you are getting a secondary source of information, and the primary source is much better, to expierence Christ, learn about him, and learn the history of his followers.

EXACTLY flip! If someone wrote you a personal letter, you should read it from it's primary source. The Bible wasn't around the first 400 years of Christianity. The CHURCH (the body of Christ) created the Bible. It is the CHURCH that is the primary source that we should look to! The Bible came from the Church--the Church did not come from the Bible.

How did Christians know Christ before they had the Bible? You have to remember that until the invention of the printing press (about 1000 years after the Bible was compiled, which is about 1400 years after Christianity started) that the only way for people to know Christ was through his Church. Why would God change his plans because of a printing press?

God bless.