Inaestimabile Donum

[Oik]

There is something that puzzles me here.

[b]Note: This thread is not about a traditionalist versus Vatican II debate. Not interested.[/b]

Inaestimabile Donum no. 18:

"There are of course various roles that women can perform in the liturgical assembly: these include reading the word of God and proclaiming the intentions of the prayer of the faithful. Women are not however permitted to act as altar servers."


Now, Redemptionis Sacramentum states no. 122:

"Girls or women may also be admitted to this service of the altar, at the discretion of the diocesan Bishop and in observance of the established norms."



Your thoughts (and i don't mean for/against females as altar servers).

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

It is a matter of discipline, not doctrinal belief. Discipline can be changed (Vernacular at Mass, celibacy, ect.).

[Aloysius]

I include in my prayers for vocations a prayer that the discipline will be changed back and altar boys will be given a bigger role like they used to have. it's all at least somewhat related.

until then, the bishops have the power to allow girls if they want to. bishops don't have to though.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

There was a story in our Diocesan newspaper about a local altar girl who happens to be 73 years old. Kind of cool in a way...

[qfnol31]

The reason is because of the dates. Pope John Paul II allowed girls to serve beginning in 1994, which actually is after the first one was written.

By the way, Traditionalism technically = Vatican II.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='qfnol31' date='Jul 19 2005, 12:57 AM']The reason is because of the dates.  Pope John Paul II allowed girls to serve beginning in 1994, which actually is after the first one was written.

By the way, Traditionalism technically = Vatican II.
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Tradition is not reducible to Vatican II. Certainly, the Second Vatican Council as an ecumenical council of the Church is an expression of the universal Tradition of the Church, but it doesn't contain the Tradition as whole, in fact no council can do that, because the Tradition includes all that has been revealed. Moreover, an ecumenical council must be read in the light of the Tradition that precedes it, both temporally and ontologically.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='thedude' date='Jul 18 2005, 04:09 PM']It is a matter of discipline, not doctrinal belief.  Discipline can be changed (Vernacular at Mass, celibacy, ect.).
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Eastern Catholics hold that facing East while praying and the use of males alone as altar servers are Apostolic Traditions.

The Pope may have given indults permitting the breaking of these ancient Apostolic Traditions within the Roman Rite, but those indults have no effect upon the practice of the Eastern Catholic Churches, which continue to maintain both of these ancient Apostolic customs.

[qfnol31]

I wasn't saying that Vatican II = all of Tradition, but that it was Traditional in nature, at least I personally think so. Most people say that I'm anti-Vatican II and what the council says, but I was saying they're not incompatible. Oh well, this is what I get for typing too late.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='qfnol31' date='Jul 19 2005, 12:58 PM']I wasn't saying that Vatican II = all of Tradition, but that it was Traditional in nature, at least I personally think so.  Most people say that I'm anti-Vatican II and what the council says, but I was saying they're not incompatible.  Oh well, this is what I get for typing too late.
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I was merely pointing out that Tradition is not reducible to any single council of the Church, even a council as important as the Council of Trent for example. Tradition is all that has been revealed and passed on through the life of the Church.

[Guest JeffCR07]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jul 19 2005, 07:13 AM']Eastern Catholics hold that facing East while praying and the use of males alone as altar servers are Apostolic Traditions.

The Pope may have given indults permitting the breaking of these ancient Apostolic Traditions within the Roman Rite, but  those indults have no effect upon the practice of the Eastern Catholic Churches, which continue to maintain both of these ancient Apostolic customs.
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Some of us in the West view them as Apostolic Traditions as well, and wish very much that bishops would voluntarily abide by them

[qfnol31]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jul 19 2005, 03:04 PM']I was merely pointing out that Tradition is not reducible to any single council of the Church, even a council as important as the Council of Trent for example.  Tradition is all that has been revealed and passed on through the life of the Church.
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