plastic surgery

[infinitelord1]

:pebcam: :saber: :jesus: :smoker:

just a few cool smiley's thats all.

[Semperviva]

accident/reconstructive= of course OK

slight improvements to natural born disfigurments or irregularities to increase confidence, etc= i think totaly fine

desiring to be center of attention = bad

2 cents on plastic surgry

[Quietfire]

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='Jul 17 2005, 02:02 AM']its never ok do get plasitc surgery in any case......even for someone who is handicapped. Lets take getting a boob job for example.......its pretty obvious that this is a sin of vanity. This also appies to handicapped people........for them to get any type of plasic surgery done would also be a sin of vanity. Frankly, i believe in any case of plasic surgery........the individuals basing their self-esteem off the flesh rather than the soul. But as human beings our feelings overshadow morality. If i had my face disoriented in a war by a grenade or something.......i would be inclined to get plastic surgery as most people would. I dont think the sin is mortal unless it has something to do with immoral sex........its funny that i admit to this since i just bought size enhancement pills for my penis. Man, im starting to question this to deeply........i might go to hell for the penis enlargement pills.......hopefully god will consider my motives........i dont really care about having a large johnson......im just doin it to try it out and see if they work.
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Even for someone who is handicapped, eh?
A cleft palate?.
"Strawberries" (cant remember the medical term for them-they are small red bumps that grow as the person gets older) that hinder eating or vision? Or just grow to large as to affect the self esteem of the individual.
What is your definition of handicapped / as concerning surgery?

A know a young girl who is handicapped (physically and mentally) and received surgery to help correct her gait. Although the doctors couldnt 'prove' it 100% one way or the other, they felt that by doing the surgery it would make a difference of her walking vs. using a wheelchair. Is that vanity to you?

I mean, Im sitting here and Im wondering what exactly would someone who is handicapped need as far as larger breasts, or fuller lips. I personally dont know one handicapped person who is concerned with such shallow thoughts.
I do, on the other hand, know plenty of persons who are handicapped who would love to fix that drooping eyelid because it is almost impossible to see out of that eye, although some may see it as a chance to get some 'facework' done. Or are willing to endure a full lower body cast if there is a chance that they may be able to walk with a cane as opposed to using a full walker with AFO's or a wheelchair, even though some think that it isnt necessary since they will still require some assistance.

Or what....what is your criteria for a handicapped person in reference to needless plastic surgery?

Really.
Id love to know.

Oh, but before you answer. Know this..


I have not one, but two handicapped nieces.

They both have undergone plenty of surgery. And still require more. So tread carefully.


In charity
Pax

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='Quietfire' date='Jul 17 2005, 12:42 PM']Even for someone who is handicapped, eh?
A cleft palate?. 
"Strawberries" (cant remember the medical term for them-they are small red bumps that grow as the person gets older) that hinder eating or vision? Or just grow to large as to affect the self esteem of the individual.
What is your definition of handicapped / as concerning surgery?

A know a young girl who is handicapped (physically and mentally) and received surgery to help correct her gait.  Although the doctors couldnt 'prove' it 100% one way or the other, they felt that by doing the surgery it would make a difference of her walking vs. using a wheelchair.  Is that vanity to you?

I mean, Im sitting here and Im wondering what exactly would someone who is handicapped need as far as larger breasts, or fuller lips.  I personally dont know one handicapped person who is concerned with such shallow thoughts.
I do, on the other hand, know plenty of persons who are handicapped who would love to fix that drooping eyelid because it is almost impossible to see out of that eye, although some may see it as a chance to get some 'facework' done.  Or are willing to endure a full lower body cast if there is a chance that they may be able to walk with a cane as opposed to using a full walker with AFO's or a wheelchair, even though some think that it isnt necessary since they will still require some assistance. 

Or what....what is your criteria for a handicapped person in reference to needless plastic surgery?

Really.
Id love to know.

Oh, but before you answer.  Know this..
I have not one, but two handicapped nieces. 

They both have undergone plenty of surgery.  And still require more.  So tread carefully.
In charity
Pax
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you said that the doctors felt that by doing the surgery it would help her walk. she is not in any position to really make a rational decision in a case like this. I dont think this young girl was really worried about her appearence to other people she just wanted to walk. That is not vanity. She is certainly not basing her self-esteem off of this......she is seeking a more comfortable life-style. I guess in the last post i was thinking of like people who were burned in fire and such.

Edited July 17, 2005 by infinitelord1

[infinitelord1]

i guess i went to far to the extreme on this...........i think its wrong when plastic surgery is done because of self-esteem issues. thank you for making me realize i was wrong.

Edited July 17, 2005 by infinitelord1

[point5]

Is it possible for a woman to get a boob job without it being a sin of vanity?

[StColette]

[quote name='point5' date='Jul 18 2005, 11:54 AM']Is it possible for a woman to get a boob job without it being a sin of vanity?
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read this

Q: Does the Catholic Church have a stand was on plastic surgery?

A: The Church has not dealt with this issue in magisterial documents. However, moral theology would seem to offer the following considerations:

[b]Plastic surgery would seem to be warranted if it would provide a significant therapeutic benefit in some regard, either physical (e.g., reconstructive surgery to restore function or utility in cases of accident or birth defect) or psychological. This is provided that the procedure does not damage some other equal or greater good and provided that it is not intrinsically immoral.[/b]

Plastic surgery would seem to be permitted —even without significant therapeutic effect—provided that it did not damage a significant good and provided that the procedure is not intrinsically immoral.

Plastic surgery would seem to be impermissible if it damaged a good greater than that to be achieved, being venial if the difference in the goods were light and potentially mortal if the difference in the goods were grave.

Goods that could be damaged by undertaking plastic surgery are varied. They might involve harming oneself—one’s own physical, psychological, or spiritual health—or they might involve harming others, such as being financially unable to provide for one’s family in a proper and timely manner.

As always, if a medical procedure is intrinsically immoral—such as so-called trans-gendering surgeries—it cannot be performed.

[url="http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0101qq.asp"]http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0101qq.asp[/url]

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One of the situations I could consider breast augmentation okay to get is if a woman has had breast cancer and has had to have her breats removed. I could understand how this could have serious effects on how a woman would look at herself and it could cause a lot of psychological problems.

[Socrates]

[quote name='point5' date='Jul 18 2005, 11:54 AM']Is it possible for a woman to get a boob job without it being a sin of vanity?
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Probably only for reconstructive purposes, such as after a masectomy (did I say that right?).

[philothea]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Jul 18 2005, 12:02 PM'][quote name='point5' date='Jul 18 2005, 11:54 AM']
Is it possible for a woman to get a boob job without it being a sin of vanity?
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Probably only for reconstructive purposes, such as after a masectomy (did I say that right?).
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(Ahem. "Boob job?" I'd prefer a bit more tact...)

BTW, were any of you condemning these procedures aware that 50% of cosmetic breast surgeries are [i]reductions[/i]? Is it vanity to want less guys ogling you?

I think StColette and Semperviva are right. There are a many potentially good reasons. (And before you think I'm defending myself, I've never had cosmetic surgery, and I don't plan to.)

[Semperviva]

[quote name='point5' date='Jul 18 2005, 11:54 AM']Is it possible for a woman to get a boob job without it being a sin of vanity?
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if she had breast cancer
or has back problems
and needs a reduction i don't see why not...

mstectomy could throw off her center of balance or just might feel like shes not a real woman anymore (women get depressed about breast removal from cancer all the time and rightly so)
to me seems perfectly fine to wanna regain balance and feel normal or womanly again after a mastectomy and such, not like i know firsthand, but so i read...

[avemaria40]

i agree w/philothea and semperviva, if a woman gets surgery done on her chest to be more comfortable, to feel more womanly, or to cut down on guys leering at her, its ok, b/c it s not vain to want that, as long as she's not attracting the wrong kind of attention, why should it be wrong

[StColette]

[quote name='avemaria40' date='Jul 19 2005, 05:29 PM']i agree w/philothea and semperviva, if  a woman gets surgery done on her chest to be more comfortable, to feel more womanly, or to cut down on guys leering at her, its ok, b/c it s not vain to want that, as long as she's not attracting the wrong kind of attention, why should it be wrong
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Exactly !

I didn't think about breat reductions at all when this subject came up. I don't think men understand sometimes that if a woman is rather umm "blessed" it can cause back pain.

[Socrates]

[quote name='avemaria40' date='Jul 19 2005, 05:29 PM']i agree w/philothea and semperviva, if  a woman gets surgery done on her chest to be more comfortable, to feel more womanly, or to cut down on guys leering at her, its ok, b/c it s not vain to want that, as long as she's not attracting the wrong kind of attention, why should it be wrong
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Again, I said I had no problem with cosmetic surgery after a masectomy or other injury, and I also have no problem with breast reduction surgery if it is to help with back/spinal problems (in which case it is not really "cosmetic").

However, I would say that it is just as wrong to have reductive surgery "to cut down on guys leering" as it is to get implants for appearance's sake (which could easily be justified as "to make her feel more womanly")

These both involve surgically altering one's body simply for appearance. If the intent is to make one LESS attractive, this still doesn't justify it. If this is really a problem, she could try dressing more modestly, etc.

(And does anyone actually have surgery for that purpose, anyway???)

[avemaria40]

but what if a reduction was to keep guyz from entertaining lustful thoughts? wat if that was her purpose for getting it in the first place?

[StColette]

Or what about if the size of the breasts were causing extreme back pain?