Books

[franciscanheart]

There are a lot of books out there that, to me, are great reads even though they aren't ones required by schools or by religious ed at our churches. I love to read the lives of the saints and about different things from church history but I also just like normal books. Books that come from someone's imagination and a touch of real life experiences. I like memoirs and things of the sort. Many of the books I read or have read are not approved by the Vatican and in no way deal with our faith. I believe that is okay. I would dare say most people would agree with me. The question then is what kind of material is appropriate.

Fall semester of 2004 I was in my freshman english class when I was handed a list of about five novels that I could choose to read for the semester. Not knowing too terribly much, but enough to get an idea, I chose the book about a young girl who was raped and murdered and then lived in a world between Heaven and earth. She lived there watching her family and friends after her death, and her killer as well. It was a very good book, very thought provoking, but I don't know if it was considered to be an okay book for me to be reading. Obviously my English professor thought so. She is Christian, not sure if she was Catholic, and seemed to be a fairly conservative person. I trusted her judgement because she gave me no reason to doubt it.

Now I want to read the other book by this author, a memoir. She actually stopped writing the first book in order to write the memoir so she would not use the original book as a venting tool or a form of healing. When she finished the memoir she picked up where she left off on the first book and continued to write.

I want to read this second book very much because the author is very good at her craft. Several of my friends have read the second book and said it was one of the best they've ever read. I'm worried only because of graphic content. I dealt with it in the first book and I'm sure I could do it again with the second. The book is very true to life, obviously, and so it seems as though you are right there with her, not only seeing what is going on but also feeling it physically and emotionally, and suffering the mental consequenses afterward as well.

So, is reading this going to be a bad thing? Should I find something better to read? What is appropriate to read and what is not? Should we read about people who have been brutally raped and been addicted to cocaine? Can we really gain knowledge from this type of reading or should we avoid it at all costs?

[Colleen]

Hehe, when I see something that has anything to do with books, I just gravitate naturally to it. I guess it comes from being an English major. Anyways, good post Laura. It's very thought-provoking. By any chance, was the book called [i]The Lovely Bones[/i]? It sound similar to what my class read it for our Book Club in my senior year of high school. (I opted out of it because of the content.)

I agree that it is perfectly fine to read books that haven't been approved by the Vatican. The Church can't examine every book there is (now that would be an endless task!) and there are lots of great books out there that don't necessarily deal with matters of faith.

As for your question about appropirate material, well, I tend to be kind of opinionated about that. I myself don't really like graphic content in books. For one, I hate to have those images in my head. Things like rape and brutal murders are very real and very horrible, but I don't need to read a detailed, graphic account to know it. I think oftentimes such detail detracts from a story, anyway. So will I read a book with graphic content? I'd much rather not. I've had to for classes before (couldn't get out of it) and I really didn't like it at all. It's hard for me to shake those images.

When I decide to read a book, I like to know a little bit about what I'm getting into before I start it. I like to read books that I can learn something from (as well as being entertaining). Reading books with really graphic images (especially when it's sexual) is not my cup of tea. Should you read books like that? Well, I personally wouldn't. One reason why I hesitate is that it can become an occasion of sin (sometimes with the imagery it can be too much and lead to bad thoughts). It's a bit different even from reading about a murder. It's easier to get caught up in the imagery of something sexual (and start thinking about it a lot in ways that you probably shouldn't) than thinking about a murder. You know what I mean? So I guess I personally don't like risking it and don't read books like that. I would caution you about reading it. I'm not saying that you should never read something that has sex in it -- umm, if you did that you could never read parts of the Bible. But when it's really graphic and detailed, I would stay away from it, personally.

[photosynthesis]

I honestly don't see what the big deal is. Did you always go to Catholic school/college?

I guess a good question to ask is "can I handle the content?" Only you can really answer the question. There is no such thing as a "bad book" or a "good book." A book is a person expressing what they think or feel. Sometimes, books will communicate things that are wrong, but it doesn't necessarily mean that no one should ever read it. We can learn a lot from "bad books."

I took a history class where I had to read a lot of what Martin Luther wrote. I was going to a Lutheran Church at the time, and actually reading his works and studying them in depth was what brought me back to Catholicism, since I began to realize how bogus his claims were.

God can use ANYTHING for his glory. Even if the content isn't 100% Catholic, or not Catholic at all.

It's important to study the Bible and Sacred Tradition, and to read books that will nurture your Catholic faith, which is a gift from God. But the Church must be in constant dialogue with the modern world, and in order to do that we must read its books, see its movies, watch its television and listen to its music. This is not to say that we abandon our Catholic Faith, but unless we speak the same language as secular culture we cannot have any dialogue.

[Socrates]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Jul 14 2005, 05:47 PM']I honestly don't see what the big deal is.  Did you always go to Catholic school/college?

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In all due respect, most of this post is rather nonsensical if taken to it's logical conclusions. I'm actually hardly a prude, or one that thinks Catholics should only read books, etc. that are all about good Catholic morals. And I can't draw any conclusions about the specific books being discussed, which I haven't read. However, we need to draw the line at some point.

[quote]I guess a good question to ask is "can I handle the content?"  Only you can really answer the question.  There is no such thing as a "bad book" or a "good book."  A book is a person expressing what they think or feel.  Sometimes, books will communicate things that are wrong, but it doesn't necessarily mean that no one should ever read it.  We can learn a lot from "bad books."[/quote]

Replace "book" with "magazine," "movie," "picture" or "website." Does this still apply? Obviously, the content can be objectively good or bad. If any of these things was hardcore pornography, or deliberate obscene blasphemy, would you consider these things worth reading or viewing?
Is the problem only with those who "can't handle the content"?

[quote]God can use ANYTHING for his glory.  Even if the content isn't 100% Catholic, or not Catholic at all.[/quote]
Would you say an issue of Hustler magazine, or an extreme porn website can be used for God's glory?

[quote] But the Church must be in constant dialogue with the modern world, and in order to do that we must read its books, see its movies, watch its television and listen to its music.  This is not to say that we abandon our Catholic Faith, but unless we speak the same language as secular culture we cannot have any dialogue.[/quote]

Again, if these books, movies, etc, were hardcore pornographic, would you agree? You will probably say that obviously, this does no apply to porn, and this is not what you are talking about. But where do you draw the line of what is and isn't porn? Much "art" in today's society comes close. I'm not saying that all modern media is bad or pornographic, but merely that it is silly to claim that Catholics should undiscriminatingly read, watch, listen to, etc., everything that is out there, merely to be "hip" to, and "dialogue with" modern culture. it is like saying that in order to reach out to sinners, we must live their lifestyle.

[photosynthesis]

Socrates, pornography is not an art form. Literature, music, film, drama--these are all art forms. In order for something to be an art form, it must be an aesthetic expression of someone's thoughts, feelings, or emotions. It should tell a story, communicate an idea, make a statement.

While porn contains some aesthetic elements (rules as to what is and is not beautiful) it is really not about beauty, and more about money. Porn is not substantial enough to make any kind of statement, other than, "women are objects."

At the same time, I did an academic paper for a Media Studies class regarding religion, aesthetics and porn. It required some research, a LOT OF prayer, and a lot of spiritual strength. You can read it, if you want. I think doing the research paper gave me more insight as to why people turn to these communities, and who does it. I'm not saying it's OK to look at raunchy websites just as long as you're doing academic research, but someone has to research it. I also used other resources, including church documents and articles from religious and secular publications.

I've also read the Da Vinci code. I have a friend (who buys into its claims) that confronted me about it, and so I read it to have a better understanding of what he's bought into. I also studied the truth--church history and Catholic books written about the Da Vinci code. Otherwise, I would be a complete idiot, talking about a book I've never read. I also can't tell someone that the Left Behind books are a bunch of carp unless I have some kind of experience with them.

Am I advocating that everyone go out and read the Da Vinci code and the Left Behind books and do research papers about religion and porn? No. But I am saying that I believe my faith can only grow and develop when it is challenged by the secular world, provided that I use the Bible and Tradition as the lens through which I view it.

[quote name='Socrates' date='Jul 14 2005, 08:13 PM']I'm not saying that all modern media is bad or pornographic, but merely that it is silly to claim that Catholics should undiscriminatingly read, watch, listen to, etc., everything that is out there, merely to be "hip" to, and "dialogue with" modern culture.  it is like saying that in order to reach out to sinners, we must live their lifestyle.
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No, Catholics need to be very discriminating in terms of HOW they read and interpret secular material. I like the fact that the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops has movie ratings, and before I go see a movie I like to see what the Bishops have to say about it. I like how they evaluate films in two ways, from a moral AND aesthetic perspective.

Dialoguing with the culture of death is not the same as living its lifestyle. We need to treasure the gift of faith God has given us. At the same time, we need not be afraid of secular culture, because Good always conquers Evil (read JP2's Crossing the Threshold of Hope).

The (secular) college I go to used to be Methodist, and its motto comes from the Bible: "Test everything, retain what is good" (1 Thessalonians 5:21). At Goucher, they are really successful at testing everything, but not at retaining what is good. But I take that motto as my own because I strive to live a life of holiness even though we live in the culture of death.

[philothea]

Personally, I avoid any form of, ah, entertainment that includes a rape, but that's because it upsets me too much. (This made for a very awkward writing workshop experience not long ago. )

I fiddler entertainment based on the effect it has on me. I can watch all kinds of bizarre anime, and it doesn't influence me at all. OTOH, reading graphic romance novels is a bit too potent for me. Also, certain science journals knock me back to atheist-mindset. I have to avoid those too.

Most mainstream novels nowadays have an obligatory graphic sex scene. I skim, but it's annoying, and I avoid authors that do that sort of thing. Unfortunately, I've never figured out a way to tell ahead of time if the book is going to have any content like that.

Anyway, I don't think the behavior of the characters, or the specific content matters much -- only what your reaction is.

[journeyman]

[quote name='philothea' date='Jul 14 2005, 07:07 PM']
Most mainstream novels nowadays have an obligatory graphic sex scene.  I skim, but it's annoying, and I avoid authors that do that sort of thing.  Unfortunately, I've never figured out a way to tell ahead of time if the book is going to have any content like that.

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some of the paperback "formula" books are so formulaic that the obligatory graphic or semi-graphic scenes always appear within the same four or five page span in each book in the series
- discoveries from a grocery store book rack

[dspen2005]

speaking of books... anyone know of the Pope's criticism of Harry Potter??

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='dspen2005' date='Jul 14 2005, 09:34 PM']speaking of books... anyone know of the Pope's criticism of Harry Potter??
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yup. I agree with him.

[Socrates]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Jul 14 2005, 06:57 PM']Socrates, pornography is not an art form.  Literature, music, film, drama--these are all art forms.  In order for something to be an art form, it must be an aesthetic expression of someone's thoughts, feelings, or emotions.  It should tell a story, communicate an idea, make a statement.

While porn contains some aesthetic elements (rules as to what is and is not beautiful) it is really not about beauty, and more about money.  Porn is not substantial enough to make any kind of statement, other than, "women are objects." 

At the same time, I did an academic paper for a Media Studies class regarding religion, aesthetics and porn.  It required some research, a LOT OF prayer, and a lot of spiritual strength.  You can read it, if you want.  I think doing the research paper gave me more insight as to why people turn to these communities, and who does it.  I'm not saying it's OK to look at raunchy websites just as long as you're doing academic research, but someone has to research it.  I also used other resources, including church documents and articles from religious and secular publications.

I've also read the Da Vinci code.  I have a friend (who buys into its claims) that confronted me about it, and so I read it to have a better understanding of what he's bought into.  I also studied the truth--church history and Catholic books written about the Da Vinci code.  Otherwise, I would be a complete idiot, talking about a book I've never read.  I also can't tell someone that the Left Behind books are a bunch of carp unless I have some kind of experience with them. 

Am I advocating that everyone go out and read the Da Vinci code and the Left Behind books and do research papers about religion and porn?  No.  But I am saying that I believe my faith can only grow and develop when it is challenged by the secular world, provided that I use the Bible and Tradition as the lens through which I view it.
No, Catholics need to be very discriminating in terms of HOW they read and interpret secular material.  I like the fact that the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops has movie ratings, and before I go see a movie I like to see what the Bishops have to say about it.  I like how they evaluate films in two ways, from a moral AND aesthetic perspective. 

Dialoguing with the culture of death is not the same as living its lifestyle.  We need to treasure the gift of faith God has given us.  At the same time, we need not be afraid of secular culture, because Good always conquers Evil (read JP2's Crossing the Threshold of Hope).

The (secular) college I go to used to be Methodist, and its motto comes from the Bible:  "Test everything, retain what is good" (1 Thessalonians 5:21).  At Goucher, they are really successful at testing everything, but not at retaining what is good.  But I take that motto as my own because I strive to live a life of holiness even though we live in the culture of death.
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Sorry, it seems maybe I misunderstood your post, and perhaps you misunderstood mine. I was using the hardcore porn as an extreme example to make my point (as something you'd probably agree was wrong to read). My point was that there are some things that we are probably better off not reading. it is not always clear where to draw the line. There's a lot of trash that is really basically porn masquerading as art or literature, as well as things that have some genuine literary or artistic value, but contain pornographic elements, and would be an occasion of sin for many readers/viewers. I'm not always clear where to draw the line myself. I know from my own experience that it is easy to read or watch things for the wrong reasons and try to justify it. (What I am referring to as pornography here is not just as this term is generally used in our culture, but anything that is portrayed so as to arouse the sexual appetite, even if it is in the context of a dramatic story, etc.)

[StColette]

[quote name='dspen2005' date='Jul 14 2005, 07:34 PM']speaking of books... anyone know of the Pope's criticism of Harry Potter??
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different thread check Open Mic lol we'll leave this thread potter free

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='StColette' date='Jul 14 2005, 07:44 PM']different thread check Open Mic lol we'll leave this thread potter free
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thank youuuu jennie. lol.

[Paladin D]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Jul 14 2005, 07:57 PM']pornography is not an art form.[/quote]

I agree with you. Unfortunately, there are some who believe it is an art form.

[franciscanheart]

I think it is also important to note that this book does not have sex scenes like a lot of books. The sex that takes place in this book is very traumatic and if you did get turned on by it then you would have a weird fetish. However, seeing how that is not the case I don't know if it is still something to be avoided. Many people will say simply to avoid books with sex scenes period. This book is different. Lovely Bones was different.

-i was going to add a passage from the book but i can't find it right now. as soon as i find it i will post the passage and maybe this will better determine the appropriate conclusion for this particular book. i guess, though, the bigger question is where do you drawn the line in general? does it become a case by case decision or can you put a general limit on what you read and dont read?

[Carrie]

[quote name='hugheyforlife' date='Jul 14 2005, 01:10 PM']There are a lot of books out there that, to me, are great reads even though they aren't ones required by schools or by religious ed at our churches. I love to read the lives of the saints and about different things from church history but I also just like normal books. Books that come from someone's imagination and a touch of real life experiences. I like memoirs and things of the sort. Many of the books I read or have read are not approved by the Vatican and in no way deal with our faith. I believe that is okay. I would dare say most people would agree with me. The question then is what kind of material is appropriate.

Fall semester of 2004 I was in my freshman english class when I was handed a list of about five novels that I could choose to read for the semester. Not knowing too terribly much, but enough to get an idea, I chose the book about a young girl who was raped and murdered and then lived in a world between Heaven and earth. She lived there watching her family and friends after her death, and her killer as well. It was a very good book, very thought provoking, but I don't know if it was considered to be an okay book for me to be reading. Obviously my English professor thought so. She is Christian, not sure if she was Catholic, and seemed to be a fairly conservative person. I trusted her judgement because she gave me no reason to doubt it.

Now I want to read the other book  by this author, a memoir. She actually stopped writing the first book in order to write the memoir so she would not use the original book as a venting tool or a form of healing. When she finished the memoir she picked up where she left off on the first book and continued to write.

I want to read this second book very much because the author is very good at her craft. Several of my friends have read the second book and said it was one of the best they've ever read. I'm worried only because of graphic content. I dealt with it in the first book and I'm sure I could do it again with the second. The book is very true to life, obviously, and so it seems as though you are right there with her, not only seeing what is going on but also feeling it physically and emotionally, and suffering the mental consequenses afterward as well.

So, is reading this going to be a bad thing? Should I find something better to read? What is appropriate to read and what is not? Should we read about people who have been brutally raped and been addicted to cocaine? Can we really gain knowledge from this type of reading or should we avoid it at all costs?
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Hughey, I've read both of these books awhile back.

The author is brutally honest about all she went through. I admire her strength and would recommend the book to anyone who is mature enough to handle the graphic content.

I cried through most of it.