Women and Clothing - Men and Clothing

[avemaria40]

well, wat i mean is that a lot of girls feel like they have to be the same as the boys by having the same rights as boys and im not talking about equal wages or voting. I'm talking about how girls feel they should have the "right" not to get pregnant and to do what they want with their bodies b/c, apparently, men can have sex w/out getting pregnant and that's waht some girls feel like they should be able to do, that's where the concept of prochoice came from. also, women want to know why they can't be priests and they have to be told its a role only for men and they think it means we're saying men are better than women. Idk if i explained it right but that's what i meant

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='Semperviva' date='Jul 18 2005, 02:40 PM']this is off topic but hugh hefner is actually a really cool guy...believe it or not.
[right][snapback]648306[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

I'm just saying he's been printing off Playboy since, like, 1953--I wasn't making any personal judgement against him as a human being, just what he does for a living and that its innapropriate and is damaging to women/society.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Semperviva' date='Jul 18 2005, 01:40 PM']this is off topic but hugh hefner is actually a really cool guy...believe it or not.
[right][snapback]648306[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Trying to shock the Good Catholics on Phatmass, are we?

Hef did a lot to "legitimize" porn and a hedonistic lifestyle in the '50s and '60s. Yeah, the old Playboy seems comparitively harmless now, but this paved the way for a worse things and the growing acceptence of immorality as "mainstream."

[Socrates]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Jul 18 2005, 01:41 PM']Using words like "gays" and "straights" makes it sound like sexual orientation is a defining characteristic in a person, when the Church teaches that we are not defined by the people we are attracted to, it is not who we are.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with guys caring more about their appearance.  Women are supposed to paint their nails, shave their legs, wear makeup, go on 1000 different diets and get a new wardrobe every season, or else you're not "fashionable."  Whereas guys can wear the SAME exact thing all the time and it's totally Ok...a lot of men I know barely even know how to wash their hair, or MATCH, and a lot of them also have the same haircut they had in 8th grade.  They also don't know how to cook, clean up after themselves, wash their own dishes or decorate an apartment.  These are basic life skills that men need to know.

I think you're operating under the faulty assumption that being an "asethete" or an artist, means you have to be gay.
[right][snapback]648310[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

The people I'm refering to DO use their "orientation" to define themselves, and their "culture" influences their work.

The rest of what you've said actually proves my point. There SHOULD be a difference between men and women as regards amount of/ type of grooming. This is not to say that men should all be slobs, or that women must spend their lives going on diets and at the hair-dressers.

I'm just more for the traditional standards in which men are expected to be neat and clean in appearance, but not spend lots of time "prettying" themselves, or worrying about fashion like women. (Think your grandparents' time)

[photosynthesis]

There's nothing sillier about a guy dying his hair and getting his nails done, than if a woman were to do the same. Dying one's hair and painting one's nails, wearing makeup, etc etc, are all unnatural efforts at changing one's appearance to something other than what God intended. God didn't make me a redhead....why would it be more acceptable for me to dye my hair red, than it would be for a guy to do the same?

or men also dye their hair when they start going gray, and so do women. It's a sign of our culture's fear of aging and perpetual denial of the fact that we all get old and die.

[quote name='Socrates' date='Jul 18 2005, 03:31 PM']Now it is acceptable (and encouraged in fashionable circles) for men to shave their bodies, dye thier hair, wear lots of gold jewelry, have their nails done, and even wear makeup (thinkgs that would all be considered effeminate by past generations).
[right][snapback]648289[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

That's an ethnocentric assumption. In other cultures and other times, both men and women wore makeup, had body piercing and tattoos, and dyed their hair. Women would wear makeup to look more feminine, and sexy. When women are experiencing orgasm, their lips get red and their cheeks get flushed. For this reason, women in many cultures wear rouge on their cheeks and lipstick. At the same time, men have worn cosmetics to make themselves look more masculine and aggressive, i.e. warpaint. In Ezekiel 23:40, there is a reference to men "painting" their eyes. Egyptian men were known for their cosmetic abilities, and there were even slaves who had the sole purpose of bathing their male owners in scented oils. Cosmetics were also seen as a status symbol, not just something you can get cheap at Rite Aid. The Hindus and the Romans also had complicated makeup regimines.

However, just because men and women both used cosmetics, it does not mean that they used them for the same reasons. Men wore makeup to look more masculine and women wore makeup to look more feminine, and there were different smells, styles and looks for the different sexes. I would hardly say that the "metrosexual" stylemongers are trying to get heterosexual guys to look like women...it's more of an effort to get men to care more about their appearance, and I don't think that's a bad thing.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Semperviva' date='Jul 18 2005, 03:40 PM']this is off topic but hugh hefner is actually a really cool guy...believe it or not.
[right][snapback]648306[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
if by being a cool guy you mean producing pornographic garbage that leads people into mortal sin and degrades women.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Jul 18 2005, 03:59 PM']There SHOULD be a difference between men and women as regards amount of/ type of grooming.  This is not to say that men should all be slobs, or that women must spend their lives going on diets and at the hair-dressers.
[right][snapback]648335[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
According to traditional standards, men are expected to be "clean-cut," but at the same time, it is OK for them to be slobs in the household, because traditionally, it's a woman's job to follow her husband around with a dustpan and clean up after him. There's a common phenomenon with young men, where they leave home, graduate from college and move out, and they keep expecting Mommy to come back and clean their apartments. I've had boyfriends who would invite me over to watch a movie at their apartment, and I've declined because their apartment is so full of garbage, dirt, mildew, rats and roaches that it's a public health risk. I've actually said to men, "I'm sorry, I can't come over because I don't want to get the Hanta virus."

[Socrates]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Jul 18 2005, 02:01 PM']There's nothing sillier about a guy dying his hair and getting his nails done, than if a woman were to do the same.  Dying one's hair and painting one's nails, wearing makeup, etc etc, are all unnatural efforts at changing one's appearance to something other than what God intended.  God didn't make me a redhead....why would it be more acceptable for me to dye my hair red, than it would be for a guy to do the same?

or men also dye their hair when they start going gray, and so do women.  It's a sign of our culture's fear of aging and perpetual denial of the fact that we all get old and die.
That's an ethnocentric assumption.  In other cultures and other times, both men and women wore makeup, had body piercing and tattoos, and dyed their hair.  Women would wear makeup to look more feminine, and sexy.  When women are experiencing orgasm, their lips get red and their cheeks get flushed.  For this reason, women in many cultures wear rouge on their cheeks and lipstick.  At the same time, men have worn cosmetics to make themselves look more masculine and aggressive, i.e. warpaint.  In Ezekiel 23:40, there is a reference to men "painting" their eyes.  Egyptian men were known for their cosmetic abilities, and there were even slaves who had the sole purpose of bathing their male owners in scented oils.  Cosmetics were also seen as a status symbol, not just something you can get cheap at Rite Aid.  The Hindus and the Romans also had complicated makeup regimines.

However, just because men and women both used cosmetics, it does not mean that they used them for the same reasons.  Men wore makeup to look more masculine and women wore makeup to look more feminine, and there were different smells, styles and looks for the different sexes.  I would hardly say that the "metrosexual" stylemongers are trying to get heterosexual guys to look like women...it's more of an effort to get men to care more about their appearance, and I don't think that's a bad thing.
[right][snapback]648339[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

I am ethnocentric, and am talking about what's going on in our own Western Culture. A lot of what went on in late Roman society and the Egyptian nobility was quite decadent (as is our own culture today).

Part of the problem is that these things are being done deliberately to defy what our culture traditionally considers masculine or feminine. I read an article linked to in another forum about about such male fashions, and the European designer was explaining how this had to do with the "changing role of the male" (away from authority, responsibility, etc.) and was linked with a rather decadent lifestyle.

There is nothing good at all about "metrosexual" and similar fashion movements. They are merely attempts by the decadent and effete to spread their decadence (and I might cynically add, for mongerers of beauty products and services to get men to waste as much money on these things as women.)

The lack of difference in sexual roles is a sign of society's decadence.

[Luthien]

I wear blush so I don't look sick...not to look like Im in perpetual orgasm...I dont think thats true for all cultures...

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Luthien' date='Jul 18 2005, 04:24 PM']I wear blush so I don't look sick...not to look like Im in perpetual orgasm...I dont think thats true for all cultures...
[right][snapback]648383[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
that's probably another reason why men and women would wear blush.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Jul 18 2005, 04:18 PM']I am ethnocentric, and am talking about what's going on in our own Western Culture.  A lot of what went on in late Roman society and the Egyptian nobility was quite decadent (as is our own culture today).

Part of the problem is that these things are being done deliberately to defy what our culture traditionally considers masculine or feminine.  I read an article linked to in another forum about about such male fashions, and the European designer was explaining how this had to do with the "changing role of the male" (away from authority, responsibility, etc.) and was linked with a rather decadent lifestyle.

There is nothing good at all about "metrosexual" and similar fashion movements.  They are merely attempts by the decadent and effete to spread their decadence (and I might cynically add, for mongerers of beauty products and services to get men to waste as much money on these things as women.)

The lack of difference in sexual roles is a sign of society's decadence.
[right][snapback]648369[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
but of course it's not decadent for women to waste lots of money on nail polish, hair dye, Nair, makeup and artificial tanning? The Bible says women are meant to adorn themselves with their good works, not with external things like hairstyles and jewelery.