"1000" years

[Fides_et_Ratio]

My "rapture" apologetic skills are very rusty...

What's the Catholic interpretation of Revelation 20:4-7? and what's the deal with the 1000 years? and does 2 Peter 3:8-14 have anything to do with it?

"4And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. 7Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison "

I have an inkling that this is referring to something already taken place, but my knowledge of this bit of Scripture (and the Catholic faith) is very limited.

Any and all information is greatly appreciated!

[Christie_M]

[quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' date='Jul 13 2005, 08:59 PM']My "rapture" apologetic skills are very rusty...

What's the Catholic interpretation of Revelation 20:4-7? and what's the deal with the 1000 years? and does 2 Peter 3:8-14 have anything to do with it?

[/quote]


The 1000 years part is after the Rapture, when God is remaking the Earth. After He's finished "fixing" the Earth, He will be with us for 1000 years.

[phatcatholic]

fides..............the navarre commentary is helpful here. i will type out what it says when i get to work.......

[phatcatholic]

ok, from the navarre commentary:[list][b]4-6. [/b]The power to judge belongs to Jesus Christ in his own right because he has been given it by the Father (cf., e.g., Jn 5:22; 9:39; Acts 10:42). However, our Lord gives a share in his power to the Apostles, whom he promised would sit on twelve thrones judging the tribes of Israel (cf. Mt 19:28). All other Christians will also share in Christ's power (cf. 1 Cor 6:2-3).

Various interpretations have been offered for this "thousand years". The "millenarian" interpretation, supported by some early writers, takes the passage literally and says that after the resurrection of the dead Christ will reign on earth for a thousand years; the Church has never accepted this interpretation. Like the other numbers mentioned in the Book of Revelation, the number of one thousand would be taken as more symbolic than arithmetic. It may be a reference to the period that runs from the incarnation of Christ to the end of time. It is also possible to see this millenium as a reference to a world of the future after the second coming of Christ; or simply as a symbolically long time contrasting with the "little while". It could also be that the author is fusing two notions current in Judaism in his time--one which saw the end of time as a messianic kingdom on earth, and the other which saw that End as a future which transcends this world, when a new heaven and a new earth would appear.

Our Lord Jesus Christ depicts the establishment of the messianic Kingdom as happening in two stages--his first coming, in which he demonstrates his power over the devil and inaugurates the Kingdom of God; and his second coming at the end of time, when that kingdom will be established in its full, finished form. That is why we see St. Augustine's explanation of the millenium as the most satisfactory. According to him, this millenium covers the time between the incarnation of the Son of God and his coming at the end of the world. During this period the activity of the devil is to some degree restricted; he is in some way enchained. Christ reigns fully in the Church triumphant and he reigns in the Church militant in an incomplete way. The power of the devil is no longer sovereign, which means that man is able to elude him. So, although "he desires to do us harm, he cannot do so because his power is subject to another's power [. . .]. He who gives him the ability to tempt, also gives his mercy to the one who is tempted. He has restricted the devil's ability to tempt people" (St. Augustine, [i]De Serm. Dom. in monte[/i], II, 9, 34). In fact, the Cure of Ars used to say, "the devil is a big dog on a chain, who threatens and makes a lot of noise but who only bites those who go too near him" ([i]Selected Sermons[/i], First Sunday of Lent).

According to this interpretation, the "first resurrection" should be understood in a spiritual sense; it is Baptism, which regenerates man and gives him new life by freeing him from sin and making him a son of God. The second resurrection is the one which will take place at the end of time, when the body is brought back to life and the human being, body and soul, enters into everlasting joy. The "rest of the dead" are those who did not receive Baptism. They too will rise again on the last day, to be judged according to their deeds.

On the priesthood referred to in vs. 6, see the note on 1:6
[/list]here is the relevant paragraph from the note on 1:6[list]Not content with setting us free from our sins, our Lord gave us a share in his kingship and priesthood. "Christ the Lord, high priest taken from among men (cf. Heb 5:1-5), made the new people 'a kingdom of priests to his God and Father' (Rev 1:6; cf. 5:9-10). The baptized, by regeneration and the anointing of the Holy Spirit, are consecrated to be a spiritual house and a holy priesthood, that through all the works of Christian men and women they may offer spiritual sacrifices and proclaim the perfection of him who has called them out of darkness into his marvellous light (cf. 1 Pet 2:4-10)" (Vatican II, [i]Lumen gentium[/i], 10).
[/list]i think i have some articles on this subject too......

[phatcatholic]

these articles might help:

[b]--[url="http://www.catholic.com/library/Rapture.asp"]The Rapture[/url][/b] (this article also talks alot about the millenium)
[b]--[url="http://www.angelfire.com/ms/seanie/disp.html"]Dispensationalism and Its Errors[/url]
--[url="http://www.icubed.com/~rpoe/dispense.htm"]Dispensationalism: Another Gospel[/url]
--[url="http://web.archive.org/web/20040225092250/http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/WQuercus/articles/visions.htm"]Visions of Apocalypse: A Comparative Chart[/url]
--[url="http://web.archive.org/web/20040603010030/http://carl-olson.com/graphics/Millennial_Chart_03"]Millennial Views: A Comparative Chart[/url]
--[url="http://www.carl-olson.com/graphics/Cath_Disp_Comp_03.pdf"]Catholic Eschatology vs. Premillennial Dispensationalism: A Comparative Chart[/url][/b]

also these, on the book of revelations:

[b]--[url="http://www.carl-olson.com/articles/endbegin_newcov.html"]The End is Only the Beginning: The Book of Revelation[/url]
--[url="http://www.aboutcatholics.com/viewpage.php?story=1"]Daniel, Revelation, and the Rapture Myth[/url]
--[url="http://www.aboutcatholics.com/viewpage.php?story=16"]Revelation: Symbols and Numbers[/url]
--[url="http://www.carl-olson.com/articles/bkrevelation_thisrock.html"]The Time Is Near: Five Common Misinterpretations of the Book of Revelation[/url][/b]

pax christi,
phatcatholic

[phatcatholic]

here's a good summary of the three views on the millennium:[list]http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1990/9005qq.asp

[b]Q: What is the millennium the television preachers talk so much about?[/b]

[b]A: [/b]"Millennium" comes from the Latin mille (thousand) and annum (year). Revelation 20:4 mentions a thousand-year period which is usually called the millennium. In speaking of the saints, Revelation 20:4 says "they came to life and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

Based on this passage many people have taught that, after the Second Coming, Christ will reign on Earth for a thousand years. The belief Christ will come before the millennium is called premillennialism. Many television preachers are premillennialists.

Other Christians hold that the millennium is not a literal thousand-year period, but a figurative one used to refer to the time in which Christ reigns on earth through his Church. This time has not yet come.

Some who accept this view believe the world will get better under Christian influence and that there will be a time when society as a whole will be Christianized. This is their version of the millennium.

In this view, Christ will return after the millennium to judge the living and the dead. This idea is called postmillennialism.

There are also those who believe the millennium is symbolic of the entire age of the Church. They point to Bible verses which speak of Christ reigning in heaven now. This is called amillennialism (no millennium), although some prefer to called it realized millennialism because it doesn't deny the millennium, but merely interprets it as a symbol of the Church age.

The Catholic Church has never defined which position is correct. Still, most Catholic theologians have been amillennialists or postmillennialists. We can't think of any who have been premillennialists.
[/list]pax christi,
phatcatholic

[StColette]

Not sure if Nick listed this but here some more about The Rapture

The Rapture

1 Thess. 4:16-17 - Paul writes that "we will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air." Many Protestants call this experience the "rapture" (even though the word "rapture" is not found in the Bible, although is derived from the Latin vulgate of this verse – “rapiemur”). John 14:3; 1 Cor. 15:52 - these are other passages that Protestants use to support the rapture experience. The question Protestantism has raised is “when will the rapture occur?” They have developed three theories – (1) post-tribulation; (2) pre-tribulation; and, (3) mid-tribulation. We address these theories later on. But first, here is some more background.

Rev. 20:2-3; 7-8 – John sees the vision of an angel who seizes satan and binds him for a period of a thousand years. Protestants generally call this period of a thousand years the “millennium.” The “millennium” is a harbinger of the end of the world, and the theories of when the “rapture” will occur center around this period of time. We should also note that the “thousand years” language is part of apocalyptic literature and should not be interpreted literally. For example, in Psalm 50:10, we see the cattle on a "thousand hills." The word "thousand" here obviously means a lot of hills. In Dan. 7:10, a "thousand thousands" served him. Again, "thousand" means a lot. In 2 Peter 3:8, with God one day is a "thousand" years and a "thousand" years is one day. "Thousand" is symbolic for a long time. It is not to be taken literally.

There are three ways that Protestants interpret the meaning of the thousand year “millennium” (and the interpretation leads to answering when they think the rapture will occur).

(1) Post-millennialism – this view interprets the “thousand years” as a very long time. This view also holds that God’s kingdom is being advanced in the world by His grace and the world will eventually be Christianized. Then Christ will return at the close of this period during a time of righteousness and peace. The problem with this view is that the Scriptures do not teach that the world will be even relatively Christianized before the Second Coming. For example, in Matt. 13:24-30;36-43, Jesus says the wicked and the righteous will co-exist until the end of the world, when they will be judged, and either inherit eternal life, or be thrown into eternal fire.

(2) Pre-millenialism (also called “millenarianism”) – like post-millennialists, this view also interprets the “thousand years” as a golden age on earth when the world will be Christianized. But they believe that this period will occur after Christ’s second coming, during which time Christ will reign physically on earth. They believe the Final Judgment occurs when the millennium is over. But Scripture does not teach that there is a thousand year span between the Second Coming and Final Judgment. Instead, Jesus said that when He comes a second time in glory, He will immediately repay every man for what he has done. Matt. 16:27. When Jesus comes, He will separate the sheep from the goats and render judgment. Matt. 25:31-46. There is nothing about any period of time between His coming and final judgment.

(3) Amillennialism – this view also interprets the “thousand years” symbolically, but, ulike the pre and post views, not as a golden age on earth. This view believes the millennium is the period of Christ’s rule in heaven and on earth through His Church. This is because the saints who reign with Christ and to whom judgment has been committed are said to be on their thrones in heaven. Rev. 20:4; cf. 4:4; 11:16. During this time, satan is bound and cannot hinder the spread of the gospel. Rev. 20:3. This is why, they explain, Jesus teaches the necessity of binding the “strong man” (satan) in order to plunder his house and rescue people from his grip. Matt. 12:29. This is also why, after the disciples preached the gospel and rejoiced that the demons were even subject to them, Jesus declared, “I saw satan fall like lightening from heaven.” Luke 10:18. Nevertheless, during this period, the world will not be entirely Christianized because satan, though bound, is still in some sense able to prowl around and attack souls. cf. 1 Peter 5:8. Of the three, this position is most consistent with Catholic teaching (the pre and post-millennium views have been rejected by the Church).

2 Thess. 2:1-4 – concerning the Second Coming of Christ, Scripture teaches (and most Protestants believe) that Christ’s coming will be preceded by a time of rebellion, lawlessness and persecution. Protestants often refer to this period as the “tribulation” (although the word “tribulation” cannot be found in the Scripture passages Protestants use to support the “rapture”). So the question is, when will the 1 Thess. 4:16-17 “rapture” occur, in light of the tribulation and Christ’s Second Coming? Here are the three theories previously mentioned:

(1) Post-tribulational view – this view holds that the rapture will occur right after the tribulation and immediately before the Second Coming of Christ. This view can be consistent with Scripture and Catholic teaching to the extent it holds that the rapture and Christ’s Second Coming occur together, after the tribulation and the Church Militant on earth. See, for example, Matt. 24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27; 2 Thess. 1:1-12.

(2) Pre-tribulational view – this view holds that the rapture will occur before the tribulation. The problem with this view is that it requires three comings of Christ – first, when He was born in Bethlehem; second, when He returns for the rapture before the tribulation; third, when He returns at the end of the tribulation and establishes the millennium. Scripture rejects three comings of Christ. In Heb. 9:28, it is clear that Christ will appear a second and final time, when he comes in glory to save us. This view also is inconsistent with Matt. 24:24-31; Mark 13:24-27; and 2 Thess. 2:1-12 where the rapture and the Second Coming occur together.

(3) Mid-tribulational view – this view holds that the rapture will occur during the middle of the tribulation. The problem with this view is that it also requires three comings of Christ – first, when He was born in Bethlehem; second, when He returns for the rapture during the middle of the tribulation; third, when He returns at the end of the tribulation and establishes the millennium. As seen in Heb. 9:28, Scripture rejects three comings of Christ. The view is also inconsistent with Matt. 24:24-31; Mark. 13:24-27; and 2 Thess. 2:1-12.

2 Peter 3:8-15 – instead of worrying about when the rapture will occur, Christians should follow Peter’s instruction to repent of their sins, live lives of holiness and godliness, be zealous and at peace, and wait for the Lord’s coming with forbearance and joy!

[url="http://www.scripturecatholic.com/second_coming.html#second_coming-II"]http://www.scripturecatholic.com/second_co...econd_coming-II[/url]

[Fides_et_Ratio]

thanks, you guys rock.

another thing I'm pondering (more on my own, for my own edification) is the replacement of Dan by Manas'seh in Revelation 7:6? What's the significance. One of phat's links mentioned it and said something along the lines of " the 'Israel' of God no longer being the Israelites"-- is this a reference to the Gospel being open also to the Gentiles, etc. and not just the Jews? I'm thinking there's a deeper point here, but, apart from Liturgy, I have not looked at the book of Revelation much.

[phatcatholic]

when i get home i'll be able to type out everything the navarre commentary says on vs. 1-8. until then, here's the most relevant portion, which i made my bro read to me over the phone [list]The list of tribes is somewhat different from the usual list which keeps the order of Genesis 29. The name of Judah is put first because the Messiah came from that tribe, as St. John recently mentioned (cf. 5:5); and there is no mention of the tribe of Dan, presumably because it fell into idolatry (cf. Judg 17-18) and eventually disappeared. To make up the tally of twelve the tribe of Joseph is mentioned twice - as that of Joseph and as that of Manasseh, his first-born.
[/list]i hope that helps

pax christi,
phatcatholic

Edited July 15, 2005 by phatcatholic

[phatcatholic]

ya know, sometimes protestant commentaries are helpful. go to [url="http://bible.crosswalk.com/"][b]crosswalk[/b][/url] and search for this verse. make sure you check the box to include study tools. it will list several commentaries down the right side of the page. of course, they're not [i]always[/i] trustworthy, but it doesn't hurt to see what they have to say.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

very interesting.

thanks, phat.