Muslim attitudes towards the West

[musturde]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jul 23 2005, 03:27 AM']I have studied Islamic theology, and sad to say it is fundamentalist in the extreme.
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Since I am studying Islam and my aunt has read the Koran just to defend muslims. The Koran can be interpretted differently. If someone is going to read it literally, it can be dangerous. Same thing with the Bible but not as much. Your putting a stereotype when you should remember that there are good islamic people just as there are good Christians and bad Christians. You should not judge a whole group. Islam has many groups, it's not like Catholicism with one central rule to follow.

[musturde]

There's rumor going around with the Christians in the Middle East that America is trying to use Lebanon as a replacement Palestine. Lebanese believe widely that America helped cause the civil war in Lebanon to cause the division that would allow Palestinians to come in. Few believe that America killed Hariri and that they're working to get Palestinians citizenship in Lebanon. Possible? Yes but very unprobable. The Christians in Lebanon believe that America does whatever it wants (and we do) but they do have somewhat of a respect for them. For instance, it was rumored that America was going in to disarm Hezbollah and free Samir Geagea.

[Noel's angel]

this is by no means the feelings of the majority of Muslims

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Jul 23 2005, 10:35 AM']this is by no means the feelings of the majority of Muslims
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I beg to differ. I still remember the scenes in various Muslims countries after 9-11 of mobs of people cheering at the mass murder achieved in New York City. We think that the fundamentalists are a fringe group in the Islamic religion, but as a person who has formally studied Islamic theology, this idea is quite simply false. The vast majority of Muslims are fundamentalists, and they see the West as the Dar Al-Harb (the Abode of War), which must be conquered in order to expand the Dar Al-Islam (the Abode of Submission). The sooner the Western world wakes up to the reality of this situation, the better.

[Noel's angel]

ok, well it isn't the feelings of the majority of British Muslims

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='musturde' date='Jul 23 2005, 10:27 AM']Since I am studying Islam and my aunt has read the Koran just to defend muslims. The Koran can be interpretted differently. If someone is going to read it literally, it can be dangerous. Same thing with the Bible but not as much. Your putting a stereotype when you should remember that there are good islamic people just as there are good Christians and bad Christians. You should not judge a whole group. Islam has many groups, it's not like Catholicism with one central rule to follow.
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As someone who is studying Islam I'm sure you know that private interpretations of the Qu'ran are irrelevant. You must subscribe to the igma of the Ulema. Which of the School of Jurisprudence are you studying in? Have you read any of the theological writings of Al-Ashari, or Al-Ghazali, or of Ibn Hanbal? What is your opinion of Al-Ashari's doctrine of the acquisition of acts? have you read any of Ibn Hanbal's writings against the Mu'tazilites? What parts of the Sahih Al-Bukhari or the Sahih Al-Muslim have you read? Have you studied the development of their theology as the debated with the clerics of the Eastern Orthodox Church? Have you studied how they persecuted the Christian faith everyone they went?

[Noel's angel]

People get angry when others misinterpret Catholicism and stereotype us, so we shouldn't be going around slagging off all Muslims

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Jul 23 2005, 10:51 AM']People get angry when others misinterpret Catholicism and stereotype us, so we shouldn't be going around slagging off all Muslims
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I have studied Islam by reading the writings of the "Fathers" of Islamic theology during the formative period of that religions history. Have you?

[Noel's angel]

good for you, i can read too. The only difference is, I don't claim to be an expert on Islam, nor do I throw it down peoples' throats that I have read some books.

[Noel's angel]

I don't read books to beaver dam other peoples faith

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Jul 23 2005, 10:55 AM']good for you, i can read too. The only difference is, I don't claim to be an expert on Islam, nor do I throw it down peoples' throats that I have read some books.
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Well I have a degree that focused on that.

[Noel's angel]

So? How many British Muslims have you asked?

[Noel's angel]

don't expect me to be impressed...

[Aloysius]

alright... enough ad hominem... what about the actual facts apotheoun presented?

it would seem to me that apotheoun is the one interpretting islam correctly by studying the important texts of islam, and you would be in the category that interprets it incorrectly (like a non-Catholic who interpreted Catholocism to teach that anyone who is good can get into heaven).

what Apo is citing would be the equivalent in a discussion on Christianity where The Bible, Augustine, Jerome, Ignatius, Origen, and the other Church Fathers were cited.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Jul 23 2005, 10:56 AM']I don't read books to beaver dam other peoples faith
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I don't read religious texts in order to beaver dam other people's "faith" either. I read the religious texts of other groups in order to understand their religion, and that is precisely why I hold the views about Islam that I do. My views were formed by reading and formally studying Islamic theology at San Francisco State.