Muslim attitudes towards the West

[Socrates]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1592764' date='Jul 6 2008, 01:01 PM']This might be totally off topic, if so, forgive me:

It always irritates me when fundamentalist Muslims come here and wear their native dress (i.e., women completely covered) and we are expected to respect that, as it is part of their religion and culture. But if an American woman goes over to a Muslim country, they do not respect her dress and demand that she cover up. (I recall something in the news about this, a female reporter in the Middle East? Please correct me if I am wrong.) Why do they expect us to cater to them while they do not cater to us? (Note: I am not saying that every time I see a Muslim woman in her dress I get furious, I just mean the concept really bothers me that they can not be open-minded or accepting of foreigners/non-Muslims in their countries.)[/quote]
The goal of Islam is not mutual tolerance and equality, but dominance.
Islam seeks to eventually put the world under their rule, with any Christians and Jews who fail to convert living in submission to their Muslim masters.

In the meantime, Muslims have learned how to use political correctness and the liberal ideals of multicultural "tolerance" and "diversity" in the Western world to their advantage. Western liberals, of course, play right into their hands.
They demand that they be allowed their practices in Western (formally Christian) countries, yet restrict western Christian practices in the lands they already rule.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1593104' date='Jul 6 2008, 08:15 PM']The goal of Islam is not mutual tolerance and equality, but dominance.
Islam seeks to eventually put the world under their rule, with any Christians and Jews who fail to convert living in submission to their Muslim masters.

In the meantime, Muslims have learned how to use political correctness and the liberal ideals of multicultural "tolerance" and "diversity" in the Western world to their advantage. Western liberals, of course, play right into their hands.
They demand that they be allowed their practices in Western (formally Christian) countries, yet restrict western Christian practices in the lands they already rule.[/quote]


This is difficult for people to understand, especially Christians. The reason is because whenever we hear the word "religion" immediately good thoughts are conjured up. Christians especially seem to have the hardest time comprehending that anyone could do horrible, heinous, diabolical things in the name of "God" or that people who pray, fast, are modest in their decorum and who seem to have a similar value system as themselves would also strap a bomb on a 6-year old and march him into a police station. If Christians knew their own Christian history they would not be so quick to disbelieve that such things could be real.

[Vincent Vega]

Bump

[mortify]

Muslims are a diverse group of people, but generally speaking, the more religious they are the more they dislike the West.

[Kia ora]

Pretty sure that's true of Catholics as well.

[Ice_nine]

Yeah I dislike what the West has become the last few centuries. On this point I could sympathize with Muslims who feel that way.

[Papist]

I think much more than the Muslims hate California.

[fides quarens intellectum]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1313726932' post='2291141']
Bump
[/quote]

why?

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='fides quarens intellectum' timestamp='1313774111' post='2291365']

why?
[/quote]
Mainly cause of a debate we were having in chat last night.

[Socrates]

[quote name='mortify' timestamp='1313727493' post='2291148']
Muslims are a diverse group of people, but generally speaking, the more religious they are the more they dislike the West.
[/quote]
[quote name='Kia ora' timestamp='1313733465' post='2291199']
Pretty sure that's true of Catholics as well.
[/quote]
[quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1313762488' post='2291274']
Yeah I dislike what the West has become the last few centuries. On this point I could sympathize with Muslims who feel that way.
[/quote]
Much as we may hate the moral decadence the modern West has fallen into, there have not been to my knowledge any suicide bombings from even the most conservative and traditional of Catholics.

Much as the politically correct media may try to deny and downplay it, that's not an insignificant distinction.

[Kia ora]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1313796168' post='2291591']
Much as we may hate the moral decadence the modern West has fallen into, there have not been to my knowledge any suicide bombings from even the most conservative and traditional of Catholics.

Much as the politically correct media may try to deny and downplay it, that's not an insignificant distinction.
[/quote]

The people who do suicide bombings aren't the most religious or fundamentalist Muslims. They may hate the West and all it stands for, but that doesn't mean they're going to contradict their religion and kill themselves and others, thereby earning a one way ticket to Hell.

[fides quarens intellectum]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1313794793' post='2291583']
Mainly cause of a debate we were having in chat last night.
[/quote]

oh, okay.

[mortify]

[quote name='Kia ora' timestamp='1313818339' post='2291846']

The people who do suicide bombings aren't the most religious or fundamentalist Muslims. They may hate the West and all it stands for, but that doesn't mean they're going to contradict their religion and kill themselves and others, thereby earning a one way ticket to Hell.
[/quote]

Muslims are obliged to wage wars against nations that don't accept Islam, even if these nations are no threat to the Muslims. This is acknowledged by moderate Muslim scholars.

As for suicide bombing, there is a difference of opinion. Many Muslim scholars say it is permissible given the circumstances. Keep in mind Islamic morality is based on intention, and therefore the end justifies the means.

[Kia ora]

[quote name='mortify' timestamp='1313896955' post='2292390']

Muslims are obliged to wage wars against nations that don't accept Islam, even if these nations are no threat to the Muslims. This is acknowledged by moderate Muslim scholars.[/quote] Even if this is true, Islam has rather detailed rules on how to wage war. Killing innocents is not a valid way of waging war in Islamic law.

[quote name='mortify' timestamp='1313896955' post='2292390']
As for suicide bombing, there is a difference of opinion. Many Muslim scholars say it is permissible given the circumstances. Keep in mind Islamic morality is based on intention, and therefore the end justifies the means.
[/quote]The vast majority of Islamic scholars do not say it is permissable. And that a few people support suicide bombing does not overturn the majority opinion. Islam is one of those religions where it is least acceptable to do things to justify the ends. It's very legalistic, much like Orthodox Judaism.

[mortify]

[quote name='Kia ora' timestamp='1313733465' post='2291199']
Pretty sure that's true of Catholics as well.
[/quote]

Like who, Mother Theresa? John Paul II? Catholics may dislike the direction the West has taken in some areas, but hatred towards themselves? Absolutely not.

People have a very P.C. mentality towards these things. I suggest actually reading what Islamic scholars themselves say. You should look into Jihad, rendering capture women as slaves, etc. And this is not something that is in the past, this is something Muslims regard to be upheld for all times.

Look into The Reliance of the Traveler, by Nu Ha Mim Keller, a convert no less!