Briguy Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 I just wonder what some of you would be saying if you were the parents of the murdered children. No closure on your childrens lives. False hope that they may still be alive. Potential years of misery and shear agony. But that is OK, the innocent can be devastated while the guilty are protected, and it is in the name of God and His ways. God is a God of justice, that is biblical. I think he would want the guilty person punished and the parents releived of the unknown. I know that God's ways are above mans ways but God came to earth and lived a mans life and felt a mans emotions. I think the Catholic Church is wrong in this one and that doing whats "right" in this case is what God would want, even if it breaks the seal. I do understand that the argument could be made that confession would cease to be utilized as much if there were a lack of trust with the priest or the process itself. You have to ask yourself as Catholics would you trust confession less if a priest did turn a child murderer in? I didn't think you would so i do not believe in cases like this it would damage your confession sacrament. Of course i don't believe in confession to a priest so I am just looking as an outsider in. I do believe we confess to God directly but that confessing to eachother is biblical as well. In Christ, Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 First you are right, God is a God of justice, and ultimate justice will be ultimately rendered at the general judgement. You may not understand sacramental confession (and you don't), but it is in place for a reason. God has in the past and continues to work through horrible situations for the greater glory. Secondly, nothing about confession is separate from God. Yes you can pray by yourself all you want, and you should, but with the sacrament available, why wouldn't you go? There is no reason not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quietfire Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 In these scenarios, everyone is assuming that the priest automatically knows who is in the confessional. This is not always the case, many parishes have screens in the confessional so the priest isnt going to know absolutely who the person is on the other side. Plus there is also the chance that the person in the confessional may not be a regular member of that particular parish. These scenarios are great if you are gonna look for something to tear apart. A man walks in and confesses such horrid crimes to a priest with/without repenting so there is/is not absolution and should the priest say something/not say something. It is easy to tear apart something you have no respect for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLJC Posted July 12, 2005 Author Share Posted July 12, 2005 (edited) Briguy made VERY AGOOD POINTS, and you should respect them. I agree what he says, if the church church decided to make a confession about a murder NOT VAILD, then would you agree to that. If someone has a confession about a murder he must confess to God directly. No confession of a murder or rape should be allowed and granted the seal. By the way i am a Roman Catholic and fully support the old ways, but we cant pick and choose them... Edited July 12, 2005 by TLJC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Okay Amarkich or Matthew, which ever one you happen to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Jul 12 2005, 12:19 PM']Okay Amarkich or Matthew, which ever one you happen to be. [right][snapback]640884[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Who in the world are you directing that too? And why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 [quote name='TLJC' date='Jul 12 2005, 09:41 AM']Briguy made VERY AGOOD POINTS, and you should respect them. IIf someone has a confession about a murder he must confess to God directly. No confession of a murder or rape should be allowed and granted the seal. [right][snapback]640711[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Where do you get this from???? Sacramental penance is the only way one can be certain his sins are absolved. Are there any other sins would say should not be sacramentally confessed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLJC Posted July 12, 2005 Author Share Posted July 12, 2005 (edited) If you commit murder or rape, screw it you can live with it, thats your punishment. You shouldnt have commited it in the first place. I agree, confession is fine, but i dont agree with that every sin carries the same seal. If you commit murder you should not be granted the seal of confession, you might not agree but thats your view. Murder is the only crime that can only be forgiven by Jesus Christ when he will come to judge. However.... if you show true repentance and you take steps to correct your mistake, contact the police ect... then i see then that a seal can be granted and you can be forgiven on earth. The actions you choose to correct your sin will no doubt help when your judged by Jesus Christ. Also if someone commits murder and they are mental and dont know right from wrong i would also grant the seal, AGAIN, if they agree for you to help them correct there sins by informing the police. I dont agree with anyone confessing then doing nothing afterwards.. (murder) that is... Edited July 12, 2005 by TLJC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 [quote]I agree, confession is fine, but i dont agree with that every sin carries the same seal.[/quote] There are some sins that necessitate a deeper process than receiving absolution and penance. For example, (and someone can correct me here) I do not believe someone can be immediately absolved of abortion. I think there is a formal process that must be taken. However, even if absolution is not given or delayed, the seal of confession is binding no matter what the confession is. That's just the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 [quote name='TLJC' date='Jul 12 2005, 02:14 PM']If you commit murder or rape, screw it you can live with it, thats your punishment. You shouldnt have commited it in the first place. I agree, confession is fine, but i dont agree with that every sin carries the same seal. If you commit murder you should not be granted the seal of confession, you might not agree but thats your view. Murder is the only crime that can only be forgiven by Jesus Christ when he will come to judge. However.... if you show true repentance and you take steps to correct your mistake, contact the police ect... then i see then that a seal can be granted and you can be forgiven on earth. The actions you choose to correct your sin will no doubt help when your judged by Jesus Christ. Also if someone commits murder and they are mental and dont know right from wrong i would also grant the seal, AGAIN, if they agree for you to help them correct there sins by informing the police. I dont agree with anyone confessing then doing nothing afterwards.. (murder) that is... [right][snapback]641017[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Are you Catholic? Can you provide anything from the Church (not your own personal opinions) that says that some sins may not be sacramentally absolved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLJC Posted July 12, 2005 Author Share Posted July 12, 2005 am i catholic? can you read? I have always said thats my personal idea, just because i dont agree with murders walking out of confession to kill again does not make me any less of a person or a catholic! I am Roman Catholic... anything else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briguy Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 (edited) I know that this scenario is extreme but even if the priest did not know who the person was he could not tell the parents what happened to their children. I just don't see how that would help forward the gospel. How would keeping that from the parents be positive, unless of course you are saying that the parents may have to trust God more because of what they are going through. That sounds good and all but God already knows if the parents are His or will be. The parents may draw closer to God by the priest coming forward and doing the right thing. This life is not meant to be easy, I understand that as much as anyone. I am not a happy-go-lucky Christian but I do get strength from God to go through life's storms. The unsaved would want to seek god more by the priest coming forward. You can't disregard the parents feelings here for the greater good. You may have to be a parent to understand this. Adam, I am guessing you will be a great dad someday and I bet you may change the strictness of your position when you have a child. I know I jumped around a lot but this whole subject draws on many emotions and frankly makes some Catholics look emotionless. Socrates, are you saying that God can't forgive sins apart from a priest? Priests are not always around in every situation that sin must be confessed and the person who sinned may want to know they are forgiven right away and not just because a priest says so at a later time. I think part of Christianity is common sense and Catholics should not throw out common sense on this issue. Sticking strickly to the "Law" (Catholic doctrine/dogma) in this case is like OT rules and the old Law. God has made a better way, which includes the Holy Spirit leading us to what is right and not our putting all of our apples in one basket. In Christ, Brian Edited July 12, 2005 by Briguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 [quote name='TLJC' date='Jul 12 2005, 02:31 PM']am i catholic? can you read? I have always said thats my personal idea, just because i dont agree with murders walking out of confession to kill again does not make me any less of a person or a catholic! I am Roman Catholic... anything else? [right][snapback]641031[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Well then, it's not your place to say what sins Christ can and can't forgive in the Sacrament of Penance. You are essentially saying you know better than Christ and His Church. "Whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven them, whose sins you hold bound, they are held bound." - doesn't say anything about exceptions for murder or any other sin. Those who are in a state of serious sin are those that need the sacrament of penance the most. This Sacrament is an act of mercy. Christ said he has not come to call the righteous, but sinners. Of course, the priest is not bound to absolve everyone who comes into the confessional. However, this is his prudential choice. The priest can also require that a criminal turn himself in to the authorities as part of his penance. And if a murderer is truly repentant, he won't walk out of the confessional to kill again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLJC Posted July 12, 2005 Author Share Posted July 12, 2005 Christ is always correct, the church can sometimes get it wrong. For example female alter servers... They changed this law because people were just doing it anyways.... the church isnt always right, there are a few things wrong with it that Joseph Ratzinger will sort out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 [quote name='Briguy' date='Jul 12 2005, 02:39 PM']Socrates, are you saying that God can't forgive sins apart from a priest? Priests are not always around in every situation that sin must be confessed and the person who sinned may want to know they are forgiven right away and not just because a priest says so at a later time. [right][snapback]641038[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I never implied this. I am arguing against the idea that priests can [b]not[/b] sacramentally absolve certain sins. - "IIf someone has a confession about a murder he must confess to God directly. No confession of a murder or rape should be allowed and granted the seal." Barring Sacramental Confession of certain types of sins is contrary to the Church. God can forgive sins through extraordinary means, but we can never be presumptious. It is always better to have a sacramental confession if possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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