LittleLes Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Jul 7 2005, 10:21 AM']I am most certianly insane. I have become a bonified member of an international group that follows a 2000 year old man who claims to have risen the dead (himself included) and whos members have been known to have been thrown in front of lions, torn to shreds, boiled alive, chopped to pieces, set on fire, shot at, and so forth. And I joined based on simple faith. I am most definitely insane. [right][snapback]634269[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: I don't know about you sanity, but you are in error as to fact (at least regarding the writings of the New Testament.) Jesus did not claim that he rose from the dead, nor does Peter state that Jesus did. Jesus was said to have been raised by God: Acts 2: 24 "But God raised him up, having freed him from death,* because it was impossible for him to be held in its power." And as for the martyr arguments, do the actions of the fundamentalist suicide bombers prove the truth of their religious beliefs? Or does that only apply to Christians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 wait then im confused.... what happened in that locked room? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 I really don't care for 'verse slinging' but okay. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. Rev 1:8 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" John 8:58 "the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one" 1 John 5:8 Jesus is God. "But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him." Acts 2:24 Death had no power over the Christ. The actions of suicide bombers, and those martyrs of ancient times are completely seperate issues. I doubt the children who were thrown in with the lions in Rome were murdering others. Even you LittleLes can convert and be saved. Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved. Acts 4:12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 [quote name='LittleLes' date='Jul 7 2005, 01:03 PM']RESPONSE: I don't know about you sanity, but you are in error as to fact (at least regarding the writings of the New Testament.) Jesus did not claim that he rose from the dead, nor does Peter state that Jesus did. Jesus was said to have been raised by God: Acts 2: 24 "But God raised him up, having freed him from death,* because it was impossible for him to be held in its power." And as for the martyr arguments, do the actions of the fundamentalist suicide bombers prove the truth of their religious beliefs? Or does that only apply to Christians? [right][snapback]634538[/snapback][/right] [/quote] This has all been dealt with and refuted in the [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=33775&st=25"]Divinity of Christ thread[/url]. No need to repeat it again here. Get a life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Jul 7 2005, 01:25 PM']I really don't care for 'verse slinging' but okay. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. Rev 1:8 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" John 8:58 "the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one" 1 John 5:8 Jesus is God. "But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him." Acts 2:24 Death had no power over the Christ. The actions of suicide bombers, and those martyrs of ancient times are completely seperate issues. I doubt the children who were thrown in with the lions in Rome were murdering others. Even you LittleLes can convert and be saved. Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved. Acts 4:12 [right][snapback]634565[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: (1) You have not cited any verse in which Jesus claims to have risen from the dead under his own power. Do you have any more? (2) Your quote from 1 John 5:8 is a 6th century interpolation entered from the margin of an Old Latin manuscript. It should read: " The Spirit, the water, and the blood, and the three are of one accord." Check out the New American Bible on the Vatican website. (3) And as you quoted:"But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him." Acts 2:24 Please note that God is the actor: Jesus is the one acted upon, just like Lazarus. (4) The suicide bombers go to their death believing that they will enter a better place. The Christians did the same thing. These are not separate issues. And I doubt very much that children made a decision to be martyred if they were "thrown to the lions." But killing to gain entry into paradise is not only practiced by the suicide bombers. It was a Crusader belief as well: "Popes Gregory VII and Urban II changed that. They said that an act of warfare against the infidel, i.e. the Muslims, was in itself an act of penance, and if a Christian were to lose his life so doing, he would go straight to heaven." Same story with the fundamentalists. (5)I've already "converted" and hopefully am "saved." I just am not all that gullible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 [quote name='LittleLes' date='Jul 7 2005, 01:57 PM']RESPONSE: (1) You have not cited any verse in which Jesus claims to have risen from the dead under his own power. Do you have any more? (2) Your quote from 1 John 5:8 is a 6th century interpolation entered from the margin of an Old Latin manuscript. It should read: " The Spirit, the water, and the blood, and the three are of one accord." Check out the New American Bible on the Vatican website. (3) And as you quoted:"But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him." Acts 2:24 Please note that God is the actor: Jesus is the one acted upon, just like Lazarus. (4) The suicide bombers go to their death believing that they will enter a better place. The Christians did the same thing. These are not separate issues. And I doubt very much that children made a decision to be martyred if they were "thrown to the lions." But killing to gain entry into paradise is not only practiced by the suicide bombers. It was a Crusader belief as well: "Popes Gregory VII and Urban II changed that. They said that an act of warfare against the infidel, i.e. the Muslims, was in itself an act of penance, and if a Christian were to lose his life so doing, he would go straight to heaven." Same story with the fundamentalists. (5)I've already "converted" and hopefully am "saved." I just am not all that gullible. [right][snapback]634608[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Oh dear Littleles, your mighty knowledge has enlightened our gulibility. Oh great littleles, have mercy on us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 (edited) [quote name='fidei defensor' date='Jul 7 2005, 02:24 PM']Oh dear Littleles, your mighty knowledge has enlightened our gulibility. Oh great littleles, have mercy on us! [right][snapback]634645[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I wouldn't encourage him in his delusions of grandeur. Edited July 7, 2005 by Socrates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='Jul 7 2005, 02:24 PM']Oh dear Littleles, your mighty knowledge has enlightened our gulibility. Oh great littleles, have mercy on us! [right][snapback]634645[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: You are welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 John 10:17-18 is pretty clear, methinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 (edited) I'll bet Les is a hoot at parties. SCENE A quiet little cocktail party. The camera pans to the right to find to couples engaged in conversation (over the din of the party) Woman: ... and that's why this man is crazy!!! (laughter) Man: I'll tell you what I'm crazy over is this cream coagulated milk dip!! If loving this dip is crazy , then I'm certifiable!! (laughter, banter) Littleles walking by: Excuse me but while I'm not able to assess your sanity or not, you are in error over the type of dip you are eating. While there may be a processed item that refers to itself as "cream coagulated milk" incorporated within the dip, I would contend that "cream coagulated milk" is technically not a coagulated milk at all. (sound of crickets chirping) Brought to you by the Littleles Players!! Edited July 7, 2005 by jaime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kateri05 Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 WHY do i think that scene has ACTUALLY happened... oh man, that was too funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 [quote name='Raphael' date='Jul 7 2005, 04:25 PM']John 10:17-18 is pretty clear, methinks. [right][snapback]634783[/snapback][/right] [/quote] No see, then we would have to go into this little ordeal over trying to disprove the book of John to a pile of nothing, because it is so clear, that its too clear for comfort for LittleLes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 [quote name='Raphael' date='Jul 7 2005, 04:25 PM']John 10:17-18 is pretty clear, methinks. [right][snapback]634783[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: It might have been if Christ actually said that. See if you can find anything like it in the Synoptic gospels. Acts 2:2424 "But God raised him up, releasing him from the throes of death, because it was impossible for him to be held by it." Acts 4:10 "then all of you and all the people of Israel should know that it was in the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarean whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead; in his name this man stands before you healed" Romans 4:24 "who believe in the one who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 [quote name='LittleLes' date='Jul 7 2005, 05:54 PM']RESPONSE: It might have been if Christ actually said that. See if you can find anything like it in the Synoptic gospels. Acts 2:2424 "But God raised him up, releasing him from the throes of death, because it was impossible for him to be held by it." Acts 4:10 "then all of you and all the people of Israel should know that it was in the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarean whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead; in his name this man stands before you healed" Romans 4:24 "who believe in the one who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, " [right][snapback]634878[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I rest my case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='Jul 7 2005, 06:04 PM']I rest my case. [right][snapback]634889[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: Again, lets observe the use of the passive rather than active voice in these passages: It might have been if Christ actually said that. See if you can find anything like it in the Synoptic gospels. Acts 2:2424 "But God RAISED him up, RELEASING HIM from the throes of death, because it was impossible for him TO BE HELD by it." Acts 4:10 "then all of you and all the people of Israel should know that it was in the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarean whom you crucified, whom GOD RAISED from the dead; in his name this man stands before you healed" Romans 4:24 "who believe in THE ONE WHO RAISED Jesus our Lord from the dead, " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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