Role Playing Games

[scardella]

I was talking to a coworker, and he asked me if I thought role playing games were evil, because he knew I take my faith seriously.

My initial response was that they weren't necessarily bad, but can be problematic. The abuse of something does not invalidate a use.

My thoughts are that it's often associated with the occult or occult practices, depending on the particular RPG, which may open a door to those sorts of spiritualities. Additionally, if used to indulge in sexual fantasy or escapism, then it wouldn't be a good idea.

However, it can be a clean night of fun with your friends. It would stimulate imagination and creative thinking.

What do you think?

[philothea]

I think we had a poll like this earlier, but I can't remember if it was RPGs in general, or computer games? If I can manage to think straight, I will try to find it and post a link.

I hear the "associated with occult practices" thing on occasion... but only from the 700 Club, and similar sources. Does anyone have any personal experience of RPGs leading to the occult?

I just play computer RPGs by myself, which isn't a problem nowadays. In the past I played online RPGs, which turned into a massive irresponsible timesink. However, I don't think that had anything to do with it being a role playing game. I just had poor discipline.

[infinitelord1]

im not sure but i have read things about my the best rpg ever made.....warcraft frozen throne......the article said that the creators of this game are christian (maybe even catholic but i dont remember) and the article also was suggesting that they imposed their christian belief into the game somehow. Hence things in the game like holy aura, ankh of reincarnation (a cross that brings u back to life if u die), resurrection, etc.

[scardella]

[quote name='philothea' date='Jul 6 2005, 04:43 PM']I think we had a poll like this earlier, but I can't remember if it was RPGs in general, or computer games?  If I can manage to think straight, I will try to find it and post a link.

I hear the "associated with occult practices" thing on occasion... but only from the 700 Club, and similar sources.  Does anyone have any personal experience of RPGs leading to the occult?

I just play computer RPGs by myself, which isn't a problem nowadays.  In the past I played online RPGs, which turned into a massive irresponsible timesink.  However, I don't think that had anything to do with it being a role playing game.  I just had poor discipline.
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I was thinking more about pen-and-paper type RPG's. Many of the more fantasy oriented ones have cleric type characters who are tied to the world's mythos. So, it's plausible that one might experiment with occult practices via their character.

[philothea]

[quote name='scardella' date='Jul 6 2005, 04:53 PM']I was thinking more about pen-and-paper type RPG's.  Many of the more fantasy oriented ones have cleric type characters who are tied to the world's mythos.  So, it's plausible that one might experiment with occult practices via their character.
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Okay. I am still interested to know if anyone has any actual experience with RPGs leading to the occult.

I know some pagans, but they didn't get that way from playing RPGs. I know lots of RPG players... and all it did to them was make them geeks.

[Cathurian]

RPGs and the occult? The ones I play probably have as much to do with it as Harry Potter.

Most of them usually involve mages of some sort, but not actual occult stuff. The RPG I'm most familiar with, Ragnarok Online, has ones that cast fire bolt, frost diver, jupitel thunder...elemental "spells". It's not much different than that in the other RPGS that I've played. There's also Alchemists in RO that make health-restoring potions, and have a pet creature called a homunculus that they can make and it will fight for them.

In RO, the priest/priestess class casts Magnificat, Gloria, Kyrie Eleison, Blessing, Impositio Manus, Sanctuary, Angelus...I'm probably forgetting a few. These skills temporarily boost the stats of the player they're casted on. That's one thing I found a bit odd: I don't know whether to be pleased or offended.

In FFXI, you can be a "summoner" and bring various creatures to fight for you, and it has mages, like 99% of all RPGs. That's about all I know.

In Dungeons and Dragons -- the one that always seems to be targeted -- the Game Master can make up whatever rules he wants. If he wanted to put a spaceship in, he could. If he wanted to put Phatmass or William Shakespeare or a barbecued chicken enemy that shoots laser beams out of its eyes, he could do that. and technically, if he wanted to put occult junk in there, he could, with the consent of all the players. It's open-ended: whatever the players want to put in can go in. So, someone could possibly abuse it by putting in occult stuff.

Have I ever heard of this happening for real? No. It's much like little children playing pretend. They could pretend the treehouse was the Evil Hideout and pretend to cast spells in there, but they don't have to do this by any means, and neither do they have any reason or encouragement to.

[philothea]

[quote name='Cathurian' date='Jul 6 2005, 05:07 PM']RPGs and the occult? The ones I play probably have as much to do with it as Harry Potter.
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Of course, the same people who get all excited about D&D think that Harry Potter is evil too.

[quote name='Cathurian' date='Jul 6 2005, 05:07 PM']In RO, the priest/priestess class casts Magnificat, Gloria, Kyrie Eleison, Blessing, Impositio Manus, Sanctuary, Angelus...I'm probably forgetting a few. These skills temporarily boost the stats of the player they're casted on. That's one thing I found a bit odd: I don't know whether to be pleased or offended.
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Yeah, I don't know either. It's funny, though!

[Guest JeffCR07]

I know of very orthodox catholics who play roleplaying games.

While I don't play D&D, I play a lot of RPG videogames (japanimation rpgs are my guilty pleasure )

Perhaps that makes me biased, but in as much honesty as I can offer (and I feel that is a lot), I have never noticed anything in videogame rpgs that is substantially worse than things in books or on tv, and there is quite a bit that is significantly better.

Moreover, I would argue that, at least in the videogame realm, rpgs are a much more morally healthy genre than say, your typical fighting or action game, as the focus is on a developing storyline and characters viewed as persons rather than in the former, in which the focus is on killing and fighting with no consideration for human personhood.

On a final note, while I am certainly speaking outside of my realm of expertise, it seems to me that the danger of pencil and paper rpgs is dependent on the persons playing. Unlike books and movies, where external sources are exerting negative influence on the individual, in pencil/paper rpgs the danger (if any exists) is generated by the player.

So it seems to me, sure, games like D&D might be a bad influence, but only if the kid lets his imagination go to far and loses touch with reality. Moreover, it seems like there is no reason whatsoever why you would be forced to play in an immoral way

[Socrates]

I'm not a D&D gamer, so I don't know anything from personal experience, but I remember in the 80's there was a huge controversy over this. The charges are that D&D involves casting spells, controlling demons, and other such "magical" practices. It was said that while this was under the guise of fantasy, this opened the door for real demonic activity.

(However, if Don John says D&D is fine, I guess it's fine)

[KizlarAgha]

RPGs are fine. The danger most often cited is that people have a hard time differentiating fantasy from reality and take them too seriously. The truth is, if you've ever run a D&D campaign it's much harder to get them to settle down and play than it is to keep them from becoming obsessive.

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='JeffCR07' date='Jul 6 2005, 08:33 PM']I know of very orthodox catholics who play roleplaying games.

While I don't play D&D, I play a lot of RPG videogames (japanimation rpgs are my guilty pleasure  )

Perhaps that makes me biased, but in as much honesty as I can offer (and I feel that is a lot), I have never noticed anything in videogame rpgs that is substantially worse than things in books or on tv, and there is quite a bit that is significantly better.

Moreover, I would argue that, at least in the videogame realm, rpgs are a much more morally healthy genre than say, your typical fighting or action game, as the focus is on a developing storyline and characters viewed as persons rather than in the former, in which the focus is on killing and fighting with no consideration for human personhood.

On a final note, while I am certainly speaking outside of my realm of expertise, it seems to me that the danger of pencil and paper rpgs is dependent on the persons playing. Unlike books and movies, where external sources are exerting negative influence on the individual, in pencil/paper rpgs the danger (if any exists) is generated by the player.

So it seems to me, sure, games like D&D might be a bad influence, but only if the kid lets his imagination go to far and loses touch with reality. Moreover, it seems like there is no reason whatsoever why you would be forced to play in an immoral way
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Have you played legend of the dragoon for PS1? i love that game!

[scardella]

Might there be a maturity factor involved here?

About 10 years ago, I actually did know a guy who played D&D (he also read a number of the books as well), and that helped open him up to playing around with some real occult stuff. As I recall, though, when he [b]did[/b] start playing around with it, he got really freaked out by all of it.

Now, that said, I had played it a bit with him back then, and I wasn't really opened up to the occult like that. I had actually just thought he was freaking out about nothing. I didn't believe him at the time. (Of course, I didn't really care about my faith at the time, either.)

By the way, we were about 13 back then.

Edited July 7, 2005 by scardella

[philothea]

[quote name='scardella' date='Jul 7 2005, 08:40 AM']Might there be a maturity factor involved here?

About 10 years ago, I actually did know a guy who played D&D (he also read a number of the books as well), and that helped open him up to playing around with some real occult stuff.  As I recall, though, when he [b]did[/b] start playing around with it, he got really freaked out by all of it.

Now, that said, I had played it a bit with him back then, and I wasn't really opened up to the occult like that.  I had actually just thought he was freaking out about nothing.  I didn't believe him at the time.  (Of course, I didn't really care about my faith at the time, either.)

By the way, we were about 13 back then.
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I think that playing with the occult is pretty common in preteens. At slumber parties we'd get out oujia boards and try to hold seances and such. Now that I think of it, it was all very lame. But we thought we were daring and mature. No one played D&D, though.

(Well, I had a AD&D set, but no one ever played with me.)

[Paladin D]

[quote name='JeffCR07' date='Jul 6 2005, 09:33 PM']I know of very orthodox catholics who play roleplaying games.

While I don't play D&D, I play a lot of RPG videogames (japanimation rpgs are my guilty pleasure  )

Perhaps that makes me biased, but in as much honesty as I can offer (and I feel that is a lot), I have never noticed anything in videogame rpgs that is substantially worse than things in books or on tv, and there is quite a bit that is significantly better.

Moreover, I would argue that, at least in the videogame realm, rpgs are a much more morally healthy genre than say, your typical fighting or action game, as the focus is on a developing storyline and characters viewed as persons rather than in the former, in which the focus is on killing and fighting with no consideration for human personhood.
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I'm a videogame RPGer myself as well, and I couldn't agree with you more.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='scardella' date='Jul 6 2005, 04:53 PM']I was thinking more about pen-and-paper type RPG's.  Many of the more fantasy oriented ones have cleric type characters who are tied to the world's mythos.  So, it's plausible that one might experiment with occult practices via their character.
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I play D&D regularly, I Ran Rifts Campaign for years ( by the way Rifts unlike D&D is not appropriate for Children and cannot without serious work be made so, it is inherently adult in its themes and moral questions.) they are games nothing more I have yet to see anyone get into the occult through D&D although Vampire and Werewolf do seem to be played by a large number of witches and pagans it is ussually that they are already pagans when they start playing the game. There is absolutly nothing wrong with RPG's.