Will you still approve of W

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

This is just a poll to see what people will think if the nominee he chooses isn't staunchly pro-life like Rehnquist or Scalia. Leave debating specific justices to the other threads. Let's discuss what could happen if a pro-choice justice is appointed to the SCOTUS.

[dUSt]

If he doesn't appoint a pro-life judge he will have failed. Period.

[Jaime]

exactly

[philothea]

Option 3.

I never believed he cared about abortion. It was a freebie bone to toss to certain supporters. He didn't actually have to do anything politically costly, except claim a stance.

I hope I'm wrong.

[Aloysius]

he has done alot to cut our international funding of abortion and has been a good ally on stuff like partial birth abortion and parental notification, and it is clear that he would support making it the state's decision. there's a lot he's put on the line in supporting the pro-life cause. he's not a perfect pro-lifer, but I think it's unfounded to say he doesn't care about it.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

if he picks the attorney general im gonna be pissed.

[zunshynn]

I wouldn't completely disapprove of him. But I would be shocked and angry. I just can't see him doing that though, I mean the way he stood against embryonic stem cell research even when his own party was against him

[Cam42]

[quote name='dUSt' date='Jul 6 2005, 02:07 PM']If he doesn't appoint a pro-life judge he will have failed. Period.
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Hey dUSt.....did he ever claim to be pro-life, in all circumstances?




To everyone else:

His leadership of the country was the reason that I voted for him. He is a better choice than Kerry. He is a better choice than Perutka.

While being pro-life is a huge part of my life, there are also other factors that I must take into account when dealing with the election of a President. We cannot be "one issue" people. We have to think about our economy, our national safety, our liberty, and there are other social aspects that we must take into consideration. The Pro-life movement is most certainly an important one and I am not saying that it is not, but there are other issues that one must take into account when voting for a President.

Again, Bush has never said that he is totally pro-life. That is something that has been projected upon him. He has supported certain forms of stem cell research, he has been on record as being supportive of certain situations where abortion is acceptable, most notably rape and incest.

I have held this for a very long time, Bush is not pro-life. Never has been. Gonzalez will not be a shock. Gonzalez will not be good. Gonzalez should stay where he is.

I agree with philothea.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='philothea' date='Jul 6 2005, 05:00 PM']Option 3.

I never believed he cared about abortion.  It was a freebie bone to toss to certain supporters.  He didn't actually have to do anything politically costly, except claim a stance.

I hope I'm wrong.
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Maybe you believed that because the mainstream media doesn't want you to know all that he has done.

This is an old list, but he has done more for the pro-life movement than any other president....

[quote]Bush - Pro-Life Actions
[url="http://www.righttoliferoch.org/nbushlist.htm"]http://www.righttoliferoch.org/nbushlist.htm[/url]

Before the last election you may have heard people say that neither presidential candidate was pro-life. Even now, some people are still saying George W. Bush is not pro-life. One reason for the persistence of this misapprehension is that the newspapers don’t write in detail about his pro-life actions. However, his actions have stirred up sharp opposition from many of the pro-abortion groups. Given that the newspapers don’t want to write about abortion, it’s significant that Fr. Peter West was able to amass a considerable list of newspaper and magazine headline detailing Bush’s pro-life actions.

Take a look at the list below.

---

January 22, 2001 President Bush Reinstates Mexico City Policy [url="http://www.humaneventsonline.com/articles/01-29-01/mexicocity.html"]http://www.humaneventsonline.com/articles/...mexicocity.html[/url]

March 22, 2001 President Bush Helps Dedicate Pope John Paul II Cultural Center [url="http://www.nrlc.org/news/2001/NRL04/"]http://www.nrlc.org/news/2001/NRL04/[/url]

"The Pope reminds us that while freedom defines our nation, responsibility must define our lives," the President said. "He challenges us to live up to our aspirations, to be a fair and just society where all are welcomed, all are valued, and all are protected. And he is never more eloquent than when he speaks for a culture of life. The culture of life is a welcoming culture, never excluding, never dividing, never despairing and always affirming the goodness of life in all its seasons."

March 28, 2001 Reuters reports "Bush issues abortion rule order, outflanks Senate" [url="http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/bush_abortionrights010122.html"]http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/Da...ghts010122.html[/url]

April 17, 2001 President Bush Restricts RU-86 Funding and Close White House Feminist Office [url="http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2001/apr/01040303.html"]http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2001/apr/01040303.html[/url]

April 24, 2001 Bush Bans Sex Films from Air Force One [url="http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_270918.html"]http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_270918.html[/url]

April 25, 2001 President Bush appoints Fatherhood proponent [url="http://www.familiesnorthwest.org/dynpage.cfm?DPID=65"]http://www.familiesnorthwest.org/dynpage.cfm?DPID=65[/url]

April 30, 2001 Proclamation - National Day of Prayer [url="http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/04/20010430-2.html"]http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/20...20010430-2.html[/url]

May 16, 2001 U.S. House Backs President Bush in Denying Funds to Overseas Groups That Promote Abortion Legalization [url="http://www.consistentlife.org/US%20House%20Upholds%20Pro-life%20Mexico%20City%20Policy.htm"]http://www.consistentlife.org/US%20House%2...ty%20Policy.htm[/url]

May 17, 2001 Bush Administration Begins Effort to Put Pro-Life Advocates on Intl Panels - Reported in the Washington Post

May 21 Further Analysis Shows Bush's First Judicial Picks Promising Source: Pro-Life Infonet

May 26 Bush Overrules Powell on Nominee Appoints Pro-lifer to Important State Department Post [url="http://tennesseerighttolife.org/news_center/archives/05262001-03.htm"]http://tennesseerighttolife.org/news_cente...05262001-03.htm[/url]

June 1, 2001 Bush Won't Issue Gay Proclamation, Opts Out of Gay Pride Day - Reported by Associated Press

June 21, 2001 Bush Supports Strongest Pro-Life Ban on Human Cloning - Reported by Associated Press

July 6, 2001 Bush Administration Awards Abstinence Grants to CPCs, Pro-Life Groups

August 13, 2001 Bush Would Veto Any Funding of Additional ESCR

August 16, 2001 Attorney General John Ashcroft recently warned that less than 10 % of judges nominated by Bush have even had a hearing before the Democratically led Senate Judiciary Committee

August 28, 2001 Bush Won't Back Down to the United Nations on Abortion - reported by Reuters

October 15, 2001 Bush Administration Awards Adoption Awareness Grants- HHS Press Release

November 7, 2001 White House and Lawmakers Fight Pro-Abortion Amendments

Democratically Led Senate Attempts to Weaken Pro-Life Policies Are Blocked by Veto Threats and Pro-Life Lawmakers

December 5, 2001 Bush Selects Pro-Life Ex-Gov to Head Republican Party

December 10, 2002 Changes in the White House (from the Patriot's Herald) [url="http://www.patriotsherald.com/content/changed.php"]http://www.patriotsherald.com/content/changed.php[/url]

January 31, 2002 Bush Administration Proposes Coverage of Unborn Children in Health Insurance [url="http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2002/jan/02013106.html"]http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2002/jan/02013106.html[/url]

February 26, 2002 President Bush's Remarks at St. Luke's Catholic Church [url="http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/02/images/20020226-11.html"]http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/20...0020226-11.html[/url]

September 27, 2002 Bush Administration Finalizes Coverage of Unborn Child in Health Insurance [url="http://www.vshl.org/press/2002/nrlc_20020927.shtml"]http://www.vshl.org/press/2002/nrlc_20020927.shtml[/url]

January 18, 2002 Bush Declares Sanctity of Life Day January 20, 2002 [url="http://www.priestsforlife.org/government/02-01-18bush.htm"]http://www.priestsforlife.org/government/02-01-18bush.htm[/url]

January 22, 2002 Remarks By President Bush in Phone Call to March For Life Participants [url="http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2002/jan/020122a.html"]http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2002/jan/020122a.html[/url]

January 30, 2002 President Bush Seeks Increased Abstinence Funding -Reported By Associated Press

January 31, 2002 Bush Administration Classifies Developing Fetus as Unborn Child - Reported By Associated Press

States may classify a developing fetus as an "unborn child" eligible for government health care, the Bush administration said Thursday, giving low-income women access to prenatal care and bolstering the arguments of abortion opponents.

February 1, 2002 President Bush has chosen an advocate for the aging who once worked with Mother Teresa to head his revamped effort to provide federal funds to religious charities. See the interview with Jim Towey in Crisis Magazine [url="http://www.crisismagazine.com/june2002/feature6.htm"]http://www.crisismagazine.com/june2002/feature6.htm[/url]

February 2, 2002 President Bush's Sincere Appreciation For Prayers Said For Him [url="http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/bushprayerreq.htm"]http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/bushprayerreq.htm[/url]

February 8, 2002 Federally Funded Planned Parenthood Launches All Out Attack Against Bush Judicial Nominee [url="http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/624592/posts"]http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/624592/posts[/url]

February 26, 2002 The President's Welfare Reform focuses on families, abstinence and work [url="http://www.family.org/cforum/feature/a0019805.html"]http://www.family.org/cforum/feature/a0019805.html[/url]

March 6, 2002 Bush's National Institute of Health Nominee Supports Complete Ban on Human Cloning - Reported by Washington Post, Baltimore Sun

March 14, 2002 Democratically led Senate quashes Nomination of Pro-Life Judge Charles Pickering [url="http://www.reclaimamerica.org/PAGES/NEWS/newspage.asp?story=918"]http://www.reclaimamerica.org/PAGES/NEWS/n...e.asp?story=918[/url]

April 8, 2002 President Bush Will Speak to Pro-Life Leaders Wednesday- Reported by National Right to Life News

April 10, 2002 President Bush's Remarks in Opposition to Human Cloning [url="http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/04/20020410-4.html"]http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/20...20020410-4.html[/url]

April 11, 2002 President Bush Calls on Senate to Back Human Cloning Ban [url="http://www.nrlc.org/nv041102.html"]http://www.nrlc.org/nv041102.html[/url]

April 11, 2002 Friday Fax/UN Decides Against Cairo+10, Fears Bush Administration

May 2, 2002 Proclamation National Day of Prayer [url="http://www.nationaldayofprayer.org/media/president.cfm"]http://www.nationaldayofprayer.org/media/president.cfm[/url]

May 2, 2002 Bush Administration Opposing Abortion at UN Child Conference - Reported by Catholic Family & Human Rights Institute

May 23, 2002 Pro-Life Judge D. Brook Smith confirmed for Third Circuit Court of Appeals [url="http://www.reclaimamerica.org/PAGES/SHAKE/shakeHome.asp"]http://www.reclaimamerica.org/PAGES/SHAKE/shakeHome.asp[/url]

May 26, 2002 Atheist loses bid to halt Bush's faith references [url="http://www.sacbee.com/content/politics/story/2882530p-3704157c.html"]http://www.sacbee.com/content/politics/sto...p-3704157c.html[/url]

May 31, 2002 Crisis Magazine Editor Evaluates Bush's Relations With U.S. Catholics [url="http://www.cin.org/archives/cinjub/200206/0009.html"]http://www.cin.org/archives/cinjub/200206/0009.html[/url]

July 9, 2002 Pro-Abortion Groups Attack Bush Judicial Nominee- Priscilla Owen - Reported by Associated Press

July 22, 2002 Bush Administration Withholds UNFPA Money- Reported by Associated Press

July 24, 2002 Bush Announces Initiavtive to Encourage Adoptoin of Children in Foster Care [url="http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/07/20020723.html"]http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/20...7/20020723.html[/url]

August 5, 2002 Bush Signs Born-Alive Infants Protection Act

September 17, 2002 NARAL Opposes Michael McConnell's Nomination to the Tenth Circuit Court Of Appeals Statement of NARAL President Kate Michelman [url="http://www.naral.org/mediaresources/press/2002/pr091702_mcconnell.html"]http://www.naral.org/mediaresources/press/..._mcconnell.html[/url]

October 3, 2002 Democrat-Controlled U.S. Senate Kills Pro-Life Bills Favored by President Bush and Passed by U.S. House [url="http://www.nrlc.org/Federal/LegUpdates/Congressionalwrapup100302.html"]http://www.nrlc.org/Federal/LegUpdates/Con...apup100302.html[/url]

* The Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act (H.R. 4965), passed by the House on July 24, 2002, 274-151.

* The Weldon-Stupak-Brownback legislation to ban all human cloning, including the cloning of human embryos (H.R. 2505, S. 1899), passed by the House on July 31, 2001, 265-162.

* The Unborn Victims of Violence Act (H.R. 503), a bill to recognize as a legal victim any unborn child who is injured or killed during commission of a federal crime, passed by the House on April 26, 2001, 252-172.

* The Child Custody Protection Act (H.R. 476), to make it a crime to take a minor across state lines for a secret abortion, if this abridges her parents right to be involved under their home-state law, passed by the House on April 17, 2002, 260-161.

* The Abortion Non-Discrimination Act (H.R. 4691), to prohibit state and local governments from discriminating against hospitals and other health care providers for refusing to participate in abortions, passed by the House on September 25, 2002, 229-189.

October 6, 2002 President Bush Building Strong Pro-Life Record _Reported by Boston Globe

October 14, 2002 White House staffers gather for Voluntary Bible Study Voluntary Meetings - Reported by USA Today

October 17, 2002 Germany Attacks Bush Administration Position Against All Human Cloning - Reported By Catholic Family & Human Rights Institute

October 29, 2002 Pro-Abortion Group and Senator Daschle jointly appeal for pro-abortion Senate- Reported by National Right to Life Source: Email Sent From NARAL

October 29, 2002 Pro-Abortion Group opposes nomination of Dr. W. David Hager to chair the Reproductive Health Drugs Advisory Committee. Hager is a member groups like Christian Medical Association and Physicians Resource Council for Focus on the Family source California Abortion Rights Action League [url="http://www.caral.org/alert_current.html"]http://www.caral.org/alert_current.html[/url]

October 30, 2002 Bush Directs Advisory Committee to Protect Human Embryos Source: Associated Press,Washington Post

October 31, 2002 Pro-Life Groups Applaud Bush Decision on Human Embryos Source:Cybercast News Service

November 1, 2002 Bush backs away from reproductive health pact Source: Knight Ridder Newspapers [url="http://www.twincities.com/mld/pioneerpress/4424134.htm"]http://www.twincities.com/mld/pioneerpress/4424134.htm[/url]

November 8, 2002 Bush Administration Fights for UN to Oppose All Human Cloning Source: Reuters

November 8, 2002 Bush Right to Oppose Abortion at International Meetings -article by Steven Mosher Source:Population Resource Institute

November 14, 2002 White House Pressures Congress to Keep Military Abortion Ban Source: Pro-Life Infonet

Novermber 18, 2002 Pro-Abortion Senators May Filibuster Pro-Life Judicial Nominee Source: NY Times, National Review

November 19, 2002 Senate Approves Pro-Life Judicial Nominee Source:Associated Press

November 19, 2002 Bush Administration Opposition Continues to Derail Fake UN Cloning Ban Source: Associated Press

November 21, 2002 Bush Nominee for FDA Panel Says RU 486 Unsafe Source: Cybercast News Service

November 25, 2002 Abortion Advocates Bash Bush's Pro-Life Foreign Policy Source: Cybercast News Service

November 26, 2002 Don't Believe the Media Portrayal of Bush as Not Pro-Life by Paul Weyrich Source: Cybercast News Service

November 26, 2002 Radicals Attack Bush Because of UN Pro-life Stance Source: Austin Ruse of Friday Fax

---

Quite a list. If Mr. Bush were King, he could have done more. But he’s only the President. During the period covered by this list, all the progress he made was against a hostile Senate with the pro-abortion people constantly giving him heat.

Thank you, Mr. President, for your persistence and courage.


[/quote]

[Jaime]

[quote]Again, Bush has never said that he is totally pro-life. That is something that has been projected upon him. He has supported certain forms of stem cell research, [/quote]

No but he said he would get a strict constructionist on the bench.

He isn't totally pro life. However, I think a vast majority of folks voted for him because they wanted a pro life justice on the bench. Was it the only reason? I'll bet it was the top reason.

And as for doing more for the Pro life movement than any other president, I would question that. Where is the statistical evidence? Have abortions decreased significantly during his presidency? Last I read the annual average is around 1.3 million.

[philothea]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Jul 7 2005, 07:13 AM']Maybe you believed that because the mainstream media doesn't want you to know all that he has done.
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I don't read, watch, or listen to much news media, mainstream or otherwise.

After deleting and rewriting futher response several times, I guess I don't really want to discuss the reasons I believe what I do. LIke I said, I hope I'm wrong. We'll see.

Are you expecting him to appoint a pro-life justice, ironmonk?

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

Bush may have never said he's 100% pro-life but he's done a whole lot more for the pro-life movement than he's said. His actions thus far do not require him to say "I'm pro-life." I truly believe he will appoint a pro-life Supreme Court Justice. He can say he doesn't have a litmus test and still appoint a pro-life judge. The democrats then become the ones with the litmus test and look bad in front of the whole nation. No matter what it's going to be a messy fight.

But if Bush doesn't appoint a pro-life justice, he'll catch hell for it. You can give your supporters lots of what they want, but if you don't deliver on the big issues, then you might as well kiss them goodbye.

[philothea]

Being very cynical here (like I am ever otherwise...?):

I'm sure at this point, its a numbers issue, and many polls are being taken. The Democrats have their liberal base, and nothing Bush does will ever gain their votes. If abortion was a swing issue for them, they would already be voting Republican.

The Republicans have their conserative base... but, there is a great variety in the meaning of "conservative". I know many atheists who are staunch Republicans, for military/national security reasons. I know many cafeteria Catholics who don't care about abortion at all, but are interested in low taxes. The primary draws of the Republican party are money and security, not morality.

Since abortion has been legal for 30+ years, with nothing a president could do about it, it was a [i]great[/i] issue to grab the swing vote with. Catholics used to be primarily Democrat, for social justice reasons. Now many of them vote Republican, because of abortion. I suspect this issue has decided a great many close elections recently.

However, it is generally believed that most women want abortion to be legal. I haven't checked the latest polls, but other than devout, practicing Catholic women, this appears to be true. How many Republican women will vote Democrat if the possibility of abortion being illegal becomes real? How many women who never voted before will begin if they feel their "rights" are being taken away?

How many votes they will lose if they appear to be overturning abortion is the issue. It's not like the devout, practicing Catholics will go vote for Democrats if Bush betrays them on this. The pro-life people have nowhere else to go.

Of course, if Bush personally cares about abortion, he will appoint a strongly pro-life justice. He cannot be reelected anyway, and this is his one chance to make a real difference. If he's just a party tool... or it was all a PR stunt, well, we'll get Gonzales, or someone else who won't make a change.

I suppose it wouldn't hurt to pray.

[PedroX]

Bush will most likely reveal his true colors and appoint someone who is at best soft on abortion. Gonzales seems to be an early front runner, and calling him soft on abortion is generous.

peace...

[karin]

if he doesnt appoint a prolife justice i will be very dissapointed but he wouldnt completely lose my support