infinitelord1 Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 like i have been saying in other threads.........my whole life i have wanted to fall in love with someone and make them happy. I want to be happy with them too. If you are struggling through homosexuality does that mean that god's plan for you is to become a priest? I think fidei might enjoy posting something on this thread. I am losing my mind here.......i currently stand in a postion of "no way man i want to fall in love......no priesthood for me". Its something i am starting to really worry about. i know i know i know......i shouldnt worry......but fidei has my freaked out. I would rather help people see that they can live normal heterosexual lifestyles as an alternative to homosexuality (this of course through being a counselor rather than a priest). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 SSA is definitely NOT a hidden call to the priest hood! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 If you're gay, you're gay. It isn't going to change through prayer or counselling -- you will always have homosexual desires. Trying to change who you are is setting yourself up for a life of torment and disappointment. Believe me, you don't want that. I've seen so many people waste their lives trying to change who they are, and it always ends the same way. Personally, I subscribe to the idea that God makes certain people this way for a reason, and that is to test them, to see if they can remain true to His Word in the face of great sin. Homosexuals are therefore a very special people, chosen by God. They are called to a life that isn't easy: the single life. In this life your main focus would be your chosen career. That doesn't mean you don't have a vocation to the priesthood, however. You may very well. I hope everything works out for you, pal, I really do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 actually, it depends on how deeep-seated the attraction is. according to statistics from NARTH, it goes in thirds. of people who turn away from homosexuality, about 1/3 are able to be fully rid of it and develope heterosexual attractions, another 1/3 can get rid of their homosexual attraction but never really develop any normal attraction, and another 1/3 are unable to be rid of the homosexual attraction (for those people you gotta just be chaste-- celibate) the factors such as how early on you had it from, and how active you have been (infinite apparently has only had one full homosexual experience, so that's good) and how much hidden anger issues are behind it. for more information: [url="http://www.narth.org"]http://www.narth.org[/url] [url="http://www.cathmed.org"]http://www.cathmed.org[/url] you can find a good Catholic psychiatrist. the one I met one time actually went into the field specializing in anger problems and that's how he ended up in this field (because so often it deals in anger towards the father, or anger regarding rejection from childhood, et cetera) now to the priesthood thing, if you're in the last 1/3 category I was talking about I wouldn't suggest your celibacy is a call to the priesthood-- that'd actually be more dangerous and not good for you. you would then be called to the much neglected single vocation. anyway, here's what helped me a whole lot: watch the lion king... lol... okay so who cares. when it's a girl lion instead of a girl human you can see why simba would want her err... okay so I'm a little wierd oh well if you're attracted to a guy, just picture befriending him. have any images in your brain about umm... stuff you'd like to do? replace it with a high-five fantasy. and as the Catechism mentions-- disinterested friendships. male friends are important... and doing male things with them is also important. like sports and poker and I donno... all that type of stuff. if you're not so good at sports it can still be fun to just do it with friends. it's all a bunch of random stuff, not so much the 'taking it head on' that can help you. because often when someone takes it head on they end up repressing even more all the deep-seated hidden causes behind it which just makes it all worse. so yeah.. the Lion King is good, oooh and if you have any issues with your father St. Joseph is good, and the male disinterested friendship thing is gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 The Church teaches that those with homosexual attractions are not fit for the priesthood. [quote]Advancement to religious vows and ordination should be barred to those who are afflicted with evil tendencies to homosexuality or pederasty, since for them the common life and the priestly ministry would constitute serious dangers. [Blessed Pope John XXIII, Religiosorum Institutio, Part 2, Section 30, no. 4, issued 2 February 1961 through the Sacred Congregation for Religious][/quote] People entering the priesthood for this reason is a major cause of problems in the priesthood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 [quote name='Nathan' date='Jul 6 2005, 07:18 AM']If you're gay, you're gay. It isn't going to change through prayer or counselling -- you will always have homosexual desires. Trying to change who you are is setting yourself up for a life of torment and disappointment. Believe me, you don't want that. I've seen so many people waste their lives trying to change who they are, and it always ends the same way. Personally, I subscribe to the idea that God makes certain people this way for a reason, and that is to test them, to see if they can remain true to His Word in the face of great sin. Homosexuals are therefore a very special people, chosen by God. They are called to a life that isn't easy: the single life. In this life your main focus would be your chosen career. That doesn't mean you don't have a vocation to the priesthood, however. You may very well. I hope everything works out for you, pal, I really do. [right][snapback]632985[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I disagree because the Catholic Medical Association who has been studying the issue for 20+ years says differently, and to say that prayer does not help is to deny the power of God. Prayer always helps, but God has a plan for us and prayers are answered in God's time, not ours. God can do anything. We should always pray for God's will to be done through us unceasingly. the Catholic Medical Association: "Homosexuality & Hope" - [url="http://www.cathmed.org/publications/homosexuality.html"]http://www.cathmed.org/publications/homosexuality.html[/url] Attraction is developed and attraction can change. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyndy9w Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 "QUOTE Advancement to religious vows and ordination should be barred to those who are afflicted with evil tendencies to homosexuality or pederasty, since for them the common life and the priestly ministry would constitute serious dangers. [Blessed Pope John XXIII, Religiosorum Institutio, Part 2, Section 30, no. 4, issued 2 February 1961 through the Sacred Congregation for Religious]" I hate to say this, but I strongly dissagree. When someone is homosexual, it does not mean that they automatically have "evil tendancies". I agree that if someone has had a strong past of homosexual actions, it would pose a huge risk for them to enter the priesthood, but there are those that have supressed their homosexual feelings, just like those who supress heterosexual feelings, when they are called to a life of celibacy and chastity. There are many good, homosexual people out there that realize they're called to a life of chastity, and go for it. You'd be suprised- there are plenty of priests that have had homosexual feelings before. I consider some homosexuals to have evil sexual tendancies, as well as I do some heterosexuals. I don't think the main issue is the feelings, more the degree of the feelings, the history the feelings, and the underlying problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 that refers to the last third i talked about, the type that are unable to be rid of homosexual attractions because they are too deep. those people should be called to a single celibate life outside of the priesthood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 (edited) [quote name='cyndy9w' date='Jul 6 2005, 03:31 PM']"QUOTE Advancement to religious vows and ordination should be barred to those who are afflicted with evil tendencies to homosexuality or pederasty, since for them the common life and the priestly ministry would constitute serious dangers. [Blessed Pope John XXIII, Religiosorum Institutio, Part 2, Section 30, no. 4, issued 2 February 1961 through the Sacred Congregation for Religious]" IÂ hate to say this, but I strongly dissagree. When someone is homosexual, it does not mean that they automatically have "evil tendancies". I agree that if someone has had a strong past of homosexual actions, it would pose a huge risk for them to enter the priesthood, but there are those that have supressed their homosexual feelings, just like those who supress heterosexual feelings, when they are called to a life of celibacy and chastity. There are many good, homosexual people out there that realize they're called to a life of chastity, and go for it. You'd be suprised- there are plenty of priests that have had homosexual feelings before. I consider some homosexuals to have evil sexual tendancies, as well as I do some heterosexuals. I don't think the main issue is the feelings, more the degree of the feelings, the history the feelings, and the underlying problems. [right][snapback]633538[/snapback][/right] [/quote] You strongly disagree with the Church's teachings then. The fact that many seminaries have been in active disobedience and have become bastions of homosexuality (e.g. the "pink palaces") is at the root of much of the recent problems in the Church, including the sex scandals (largely homosexual in nature.) This has been debated in many threads on this site. The issue is dealt with in [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=35094"]this thread[/url] and [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=32661"]this one.[/url] Homosexuality is intrinsically disordered (evil). It is a disordered inclination, and is not ordered towards a good. This is not to say that everyone who suffers from it is evil, merely that the tendency itself is disordered. The priesthood needs manly, psychologically sound men. it should not be a refuge for for those with sexual disorders. Edited July 6, 2005 by Socrates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 I don't know about elevating it to "teaching"... it is prudential pastoral judgement but it is not a teaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitelord1 Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Jul 6 2005, 03:43 PM']You strongly disagree with the Church's teachings then. The fact that many seminaries have been in active disobedience and have become bastions of homosexuality (e.g. the "pink palaces") is at the root of much of the recent problems in the Church, including the sex scandals (largely homosexual in nature.) This has been debated in many threads on this site. The issue is dealt with in [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=35094"]this thread[/url] and [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=32661"]this one.[/url] Homosexuality is intrinsically disordered (evil). It is a disordered inclination, and is not ordered towards a good. This is not to say that everyone who suffers from it is evil, merely that the tendency itself is disordered. The priesthood needs manly, psychologically sound men. it should not be a refuge for for those with sexual disorders. [right][snapback]633547[/snapback][/right] [/quote] oh lord have mercy!!!!!!!!!!Hallelujah!!!!!!!!!!woot woot!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kateri05 Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 [quote name='cyndy9w' date='Jul 6 2005, 02:31 PM']"QUOTE I agree that if someone has had a strong past of homosexual actions, it would pose a huge risk for them to enter the priesthood, but there are those that have supressed their homosexual feelings, just like those who supress heterosexual feelings, when they are called to a life of celibacy and chastity. [right][snapback]633538[/snapback][/right] [/quote] heterosexual males called to the priesthood (or anyone called to religious life) DO NOT SUPPRESS their sexuality to be celibate, they fully integrate their masculinity or feminity sexuality into their lives. thats actually the only way to BE celibate. since homosexuality is fundamentally disordered, it can't be properly integrated into their vocation. so a person with SSA would need to deal with THAT before they would be ready for a religious vocation. read Theology of the Body, it explains how being celibate doesnt mean shoving you sexuality under a carpet for your whole life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JeffCR07 Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 [quote name='kateri05' date='Jul 6 2005, 05:29 PM']heterosexual males called to the priesthood (or anyone called to religious life) DO NOT SUPPRESS their sexuality to be celibate, they fully integrate their masculinity or feminity sexuality into their lives. thats actually the only way to BE celibate. since homosexuality is fundamentally disordered, it can't be properly integrated into their vocation. so a person with SSA would need to deal with THAT before they would be ready for a religious vocation. read Theology of the Body, it explains how being celibate doesnt mean shoving you sexuality under a carpet for your whole life! [right][snapback]633667[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Lina is 100% Angus Beef correct. No one [i]suppresses[/i] anything when they accept God's call to the priestly vocation. Human sexuality is a part of our human identity, and there is a universal calling for all men and women to integrate that sexuality according to their vocation. That does not mean that the married vocation lets their sexuality run rampant and wild while priests smother and suffocate it. Rather, it means that we accept our sexuality for the gift that it is and never allow it to have undue power over us. True "suppression" of our sexuality would be a sin, because it would constitute a rejection of a grace. In Christ, Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 [quote name='JeffCR07' date='Jul 6 2005, 08:21 PM']Lina is 100% Angus Beef correct. No one [i]suppresses[/i] anything when they accept God's call to the priestly vocation. Human sexuality is a part of our human identity, and there is a universal calling for all men and women to integrate that sexuality according to their vocation. That does not mean that the married vocation lets their sexuality run rampant and wild while priests smother and suffocate it. Rather, it means that we accept our sexuality for the gift that it is and never allow it to have undue power over us. True "suppression" of our sexuality would be a sin, because it would constitute a rejection of a grace. In Christ, Jeff [right][snapback]633790[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I'm not mocking or arguing here - just curious - how does a priest use his "sexuality" (or do you mean by this his masculinity)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eremite Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Sexuality is inherently a giving of self. For married persons, they give themselves to one another physically, and thereby express their masculinity and femininity. For celibates, they give themselves completely in service to God and his Church. A married person OR a celibate who does not properly direct their sexuality as a "giving of self" will inevitably encounter major problems in their vocation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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