Therapy and Psychology

[Old_Joe]

check out the [url="http://www.catholicsocialscientists.org/"]Society of Catholic Social Scientists[/url] website. They are coming out with a journal called Catholic Social Science Review. I went to a conference about "Psychology based on faith and reason." It was excellent.

Edited July 15, 2005 by Old_Joe

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Jul 14 2005, 10:55 PM']Oh we're just getting warmed up Don.  But this was the deal.  I provided the documentation that the Church recognizes the contributions made.  You can rephrase your challenge if you want.  But how about backing up your opinions with  some documentation?

Where are the Church documents that reject psychology?
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Well I contend that you didn't provide any such documentation Paul IV's statement was Hostile to it -- as I pointed out. Further I already posted a source that Dualism( with regard to the soul) is required, as opposed to Monism or Materialism. However as I said I will get back to this when I am feeling better, I shouldn't have posted that other post but I just couldn't believe you where pushing such tripe. I wouldn't be posting know but I hade to run Kilroy of the computer and felt it necessary to respond.

[Jaime]

[quote]TO PLENARY ASSEMBLY OF CONGREGATION FOR CATHOLIC EDUCATION Pope John Paul II

[b]Educate psychologists who appreciate the Christian life and psychology[/b]

2. You are going to examine some Guidelines for the use of psychological expertise in the admission and formation of candidates to the priesthood. This document is intended to be a useful tool for those involved in the work of priestly formation, who are called to discern the suitability and vocation of a candidate for his own good and that of the Church. Of course, the contribution of psychology has to be incorporated in a balanced way within the process of vocational discernment where it becomes part of the overall process of formation in a way that safeguards the great value and role of spiritual direction. An atmosphere of faith in which, alone, the generous response to the vocation received from God can mature, will lead to a correct understanding of the meaning and use of psychology, that does not eliminate every difficulty and tension, but, encourages a broader awareness and freer exercise of personal freedom so that the candidate can take up an open and honest struggle; with the irreplaceable help of grace.
It will therefore be right to pay attention to the formation of expert psychologists, who, with good scientific qualifications, will also have a sound understanding of the Christian vision of life and of the vocation to the priesthood, so as to provide effective support for the necessary integration of the human and supernatural dimensions.


[/quote]

Hope your feeling better. Here's some more "tripe". Now how's about backing up your sweeping opinions?

Edited July 15, 2005 by jaime

[Carrie]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Jul 13 2005, 12:07 AM']By the way I do think that psychology does occasionally hit things right, particularly  more scientificly observable phenomena  that have less to do with the mind and more to do with application of mental facualties.  But well even a broken clock is right twice a day.
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What are the things exactly, that you feel psychology [b]has[/b] "hit right?"

I'm curious to which areas of psychology are not objectionable to you.

[homeschoolmom]

[Carrie]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Jul 16 2005, 11:47 PM']
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Phatcatholic has drinks too. Get comfy!

[Jaime]

I hope Don John's ok and still isn't feverish

[Carrie]

Me too.

DJ, hope all is well...

[Jaime]

[quote] However as I said I will get back to this when I am feeling better, [/quote]

another prayer that Don John is feeling better

And a bump to give this thread one last chance of staying alive

[White Knight]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Jul 5 2005, 09:01 PM']I've seen that several folks around these parts are against therapy.  Some are rather vehement in their opinions.  So I'm wondering why some folks are so opposed to the world of psychology?  Do folks find it oppositional to the Faith or are there other reasons why it is a distasteful subject to some?
Just curious.
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Yes I'll be blunt about this. I believe Therapy and Psychology mixed together or one or the other can, oppose Faith, It can hinder you from accepting God's Will for your life.

[cmotherofpirl]

But it can also help you decide what is Gods will and what is paranoid or wishful thinking.

[White Knight]

Agreed it can go Both ways, One way is good, the other way is bad.

[Carrie]

[quote name='White Knight' date='Jul 21 2005, 04:32 PM']Agreed it can go Both ways, One way is good, the other way is bad.
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As with just about everything in life.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Jul 12 2005, 09:15 PM']Okay I don't have much time and will notuntil thursday at which time I will make a better more complete response.

First I would like to coment that thisentire thread was loaded from the begining Therapy is not objected to by myself or I think by anyone in this forum as Therapy is the treatment of illness or disablity; what you are asking about is Psychotherapy which is a completly differant animal.

Further my objections are with modern Psychology ( that developed in the last say 100 years)  they include ( but are not limited too) the following.
1 Psychology is Materialist it contends that the personality is in the Brain rather than the Soul,  as such it at the very least butchers the soul, and at most ( and most often) denies the soul all together. This is logical extention of the Duelist " ghost in the machine" idea  of Decarte but has moved from relegating the soul to support work and being a score card to simply rejecting it all together. This portion I contend requires Psychotherapy  to be rejected by all faithful catholics.
1a. As the mind and Will are facualties of the Soul and not the Brain
      no organic problem can affect the Will 

2. Modern  Psychology rejects the concepts of right and wrong as absolutes and embraces relativistic notions of morality.

3. Modern Psychology rejects the notion that sin causes physhological disrders which is supported by scripture and Tradition -- this is not to say that all such problems are directly contengent on the sin of the afflicted but sin is the root cause of it as it is with all the evils of the world, further sin can and  often does directly cause psychological disfuction in the sinner.

4. Pscychologist often interfer in the role of Priest  giving advise about issues  of a spiritual nature -- sex,  marriage ect-- and specificly ( and I have seen this personally ) interfering with those who need a priest  to deal with issues of a demonic nature. Demons are real andthose tormented by them either obsessed or possessed  are not crazy and don't need a  Psychotherapist they need an Exorcist.

5. Modern Psychology is inherintly a child of the modern attempt to " understand " everything, somethings cannot be understood the human mind being a product of spirit is one of those things, moder psychology is arrogant at best and trying to be " like to God " at worst.
I will continue with a more thourgh response to this later.
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Don,

Ditto.

One of the greatest problem today with peoples mental psychology is that they are too focused on themselves.... I believe "self esteem" is vain pride. I believe that the best therapy for people is to actually help other people less fortunate than themselves.... not focus on why they are having a bad day or feeling down. When we act Catholic and help people unselfishly, then it helps us. So many people have it so much worse than anyone who is able to post here or go to a psychologist for "help". The problems of many people who I have known that seek "professional" help is that they have life too easy and are focused too much on what they want, instead of being focus on what God wants.



hot stuff, Carrie - I believe that you have a lot to learn in regards to psychology, logical analysis, and how real God is. You want to help people, then guide them to God. [u][i][b]If [/b][/i][/u] (you tend to miss this little word a lot) you are ignoring the most real truth to this world when you are trying to "help" people, then you are part of the problem that this world has with the field of psychology. You are wasting their time, but hey, at least it's job security for you. Human health has three aspects... mind, body, and soul. God is not just a belief, He is a fact that many in the professional and governmental world ignore due to the protestant mindset that has contaminated many Catholics in the world.... which is "don't tell people what [i]you [/i]think is true because you could be wrong and you don't want to offend them - let them be wrong"

The best therapy is truth. When people first seek the kingdom of God, all their problems will fade. When people focus on themselves and stop looking up to God, then their problems will compound. Reason with people, use the factual historical evidence, philosophical reasoning, and simply guide them.... If you are faithful Catholcs a way to give advice to help them find the truth is explain how God has helped in your life, not shallow things, but deep things. To seperate God from trying to help someone is an injustice to the Truth. It would be like teaching someone math but not explaining what the plus sign does. I will be surprised if you don't rant about this with illogical reasoning to why you separate God from your daily life.... granted, [b]if you included God in your daily life and make it obvious for them to know that they can ask about God, then the above does not apply to you and you are part of the solution.[/b]

I find it hard to believe that anyone who can seperate their faith from their daily life has any faith at all.

Catholics must proclaim with a bullhorn that 2 + 2 = 4.... Always having the "Open" neon sign lit up to bring people home. If we turn that sign off, then it shows that we do not think we have the truth.


Please pay attention and really try not to take what I wrote out of context.

God Bless,
ironmonk

[Jaime]

Ironmonk

Please read this very carefully. Read it more than once if need be.

Do I believe that faith in God is essential for anyone to find true peace? Yes. Every decision that I make each day is based on my relationship with God.

[quote]When people first seek the kingdom of God, all their problems will fade. When people focus on themselves and stop looking up to God, then their problems will compound. [/quote]

There are many, many cases that I have firsthand knowledge of where people of true faith were still dealing with emotional disorders and were in need of professional help. Here's but one small example that happened prior to my training.

The first Church I worked at there was a 16 year old boy named "Bobby". Bobby was a part of my youth group and came to all our activities including our teen rosary group. While being a nice kid, Bobby didn't have any friends and it was obvious that he desperately looked to be accepted. However it was clear that his social skills were lacking for some reason. Bobby came on a youth group trip and on that trip I discovered why Bobby had such problems making friends.

At the age of 16, Bobby had no control over his bowels or bladder. What's more, after he would have an incident, he acted like he nothing happened. He would stay at the activity with the other kids (much to their horror)

At a good moment on the trip, I took Bobby aside to ask him about it. While he was embarrassed with the question, he was wanting to talk with someone. He said that he's never had any control and he wouldn't realize he had an accident until he smelled it or felt the wetness. He used to bring extra clothes to school to change but his mother hadn't let him for the past two years. His parents told him it was "his fault" and if he "grew up" he would learn control.

Bobby said he prayed to God every day to make him "grown up enough" to have control. That he desperately wanted friends in his life but people would either make fun of him or ignore him completely. He thought that the reason God didn't fix him was that God didn't love him.

When we got back from the trip, I met with his parents and threatened social services if they didn't take Bobby to see a urologist. The urologist confirmed that Bobby's problem was a physical disorder and prescribed pills to strengthen his muscles.

Three weeks later, Bobby quit having accidents.

However it wasn't over. Because Bobby hadn't had any meaningful social interactions in his life, he didn't know how. He was still overwhelmed of the shame of going his whole life messing his pants. With the help of a good therapist, Bobby learned to let go of the shame and learned how to interact with others. He also knows that God loves him.

There are so many stories like that. Girls who came to rosary every week that secretly prayed to God to make them skinny even though they were only 110 pounds. Men who had unexplained panic attacks that were paralyzing and terrifying.

Even faith filled people deal with dysfunction. It is not caused by a lack of faith. It is caused (in many cases) because they had to survive a terrible event or series of events in their lives. Proper therapy deals with the source. Not just the symptom





[quote]hot stuff, Carrie - I believe that you have a lot to learn in regards to psychology, logical analysis, and how real God is. [/quote]

This is a declarative statement. It ends with a period. Grammatically it stands alone.

You have absolutely no idea what has gone into my training, Carrie's training or anyone else's.