Jaime Posted July 11, 2005 Author Share Posted July 11, 2005 (edited) [quote name='ironmonk' date='Jul 11 2005, 07:13 AM']Is it fine if they are my opinions? I didn't know I needed your approval. Obviously you haven't read the post very well. Obviously you don't pay attention or have not researched the world of the APA's. If you had researched or paid attention you would know what was opinion and what was fact. Much of what I wrote is fact. Some is what it appears to be. It is a fact that a person cannot be mentally healthy without God. Anyone who thinks that a person can be mentally healthy without God doesn't know what healthy is. [right][snapback]639223[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Goodness we're a bit snippy this morning.. You want to discuss it from the standpoint of "this is my opinion" I'm game. But to discuss it from the standpoint of "this is fact", its not a crazy notion around these parts to cite sources. Obviously you have no idea about me or my background. I have my master's in Psychology. I know the APA and the DSM extremely well. It is a fact that no one can do anything without God. However, a person can be mentally healthy without believing in God. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous. Mental health is defined by the ability of a person to interact within society. If a person can pay their bills, have friends, generally not be offensive, and engage in society. Society (not the APA) determines that they are of sound mind. Like the American Dental Association and the American Medical Association, the APA does not affiliate itself with a religion or a spiritual belief system. Do you have the same beefs with those two organizations? While the APA, does not take an official stance on a particular religion, it does recognize the fact that spirituality and prayer makes a huge difference in peoples lives. There have been several studies that have demonstrated, for example, the role of prayer within marriage. Even agnostic and athiest therapists own up to the fact that these studies are well done. As far as your assertion that "there are studies where the ask the wrong questions" thereby getting skewed results is one that I'd like to see some sources on. And can we do this without getting snippy? If not, that's fine. Just asking Edited July 11, 2005 by jaime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rckllnknny Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 (edited) jaimes quote: Obviously you have no idea about me or my background. I have my master's in Psychology. I know the APA and the DSM extremely well. unquote. hot stuff please see UNL on open mic. thnx. Edited July 11, 2005 by rckllnknny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 (edited) [quote name='hot stuff' date='Jul 11 2005, 10:46 AM']Goodness we're a bit snippy this morning.. You want to discuss it from the standpoint of "this is my opinion" I'm game. But to discuss it from the standpoint of "this is fact", its not a crazy notion around these parts to cite sources. Obviously you have no idea about me or my background. I have my master's in Psychology. I know the APA and the DSM extremely well. It is a fact that no one can do anything without God. However, a person can be mentally healthy without believing in God. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous. Mental health is defined by the ability of a person to interact within society. If a person can pay their bills, have friends, generally not be offensive, and engage in society. Society (not the APA) determines that they are of sound mind. Like the American Dental Association and the American Medical Association, the APA does not affiliate itself with a religion or a spiritual belief system. Do you have the same beefs with those two organizations? While the APA, does not take an official stance on a particular religion, it does recognize the fact that spirituality and prayer makes a huge difference in peoples lives. There have been several studies that have demonstrated, for example, the role of prayer within marriage. Even agnostic and athiest therapists own up to the fact that these studies are well done. As far as your assertion that "there are studies where the ask the wrong questions" thereby getting skewed results is one that I'd like to see some sources on. And can we do this without getting snippy? If not, that's fine. Just asking [right][snapback]639265[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Like I wrote, almost anyone can become a psychologist, therapist, etc... There are MANY quacks, and just because someone has a masters in psychology does not mean that one is not a quack, it does not mean that they know how to apply information they learned, and it does not mean that they really know what they are talking about. And, no, someone cannot be healthy without God. God is a fact. The human psyche needs God to be healthy. To say anything else is foolish and shows what little one knows about the human psyche. Also, again it appears that you have failed to pay attention to the original post and fail to pick up on key details. Did I write that all studies are poor, no. Though there are some good studies, many I have seen are quite poor. Many I have seen are skewed and attempt to work against a healthy society. All one has to do is look at the websites that I listed. God is real, if you want to chaulk Him up to "belief" or "religion" then I say "ye of little faith". There is too much evidence that proves that the Catholic Church is the Church established by God, that to deny it is foolish and simply stupid. For one to believe that someone can be healthy without God shows that they do not know what healthy is and that they are part of the problem with the APA's. Edited July 11, 2005 by ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted July 11, 2005 Author Share Posted July 11, 2005 [quote]For one to believe that someone can be healthy without God shows that they do not know what healthy is and that they are part of the problem with the APA's.[/quote] Look who's talking about an ability to read. I said a person can live a healthy life without the belief in God. And I'm right about that. It goes to the Free Will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Many people can and do have healthy lives without God in them. "There are MANY quacks, and just because someone has a --------------does not mean that one is not a quack, it does not mean that they know how to apply information they learned, and it does not mean that they really know what they are talking about." You can fill this blank in with any profession you name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted July 11, 2005 Author Share Posted July 11, 2005 [quote]All one has to do is look at the websites that I listed. God is real, if you want to chaulk Him up to "belief" or "religion" then I say "ye of little faith". There is too much evidence that proves that the Catholic Church is the Church established by God, that to deny it is foolish and simply stupid.[/quote] You are seriously coming at me with this argument? To question my faith and understanding of the Catholic faith is what is foolhardy. You rant but you don't read Ironmonk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 *waves* Hi, I'm here too! Ironmonk, how about my question about what you find so repulsive about the APA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 i think the argument here stems from our differing views on what it means to be "healthy." ironmonk, when we speak of mental health, we have a pretty base level of functioning in mind. in pscyhology, a person is healthy when he has no mental / emotional / behavioral problems that interfere with his ability to function normally in society. now, will that person become self-actualized w/o a belief in God?: NO will that person ever realize his full potential?: NO will that person come to the truest sense of himself and the world around him?: NO will that person ever understand what love truly is?: NO but, is he "healthy"?: YES also, note that we agree w/ you that no good thing comes w/o God. we're not saying that he can function w/o God, b/c God will always be at work. what we're saying is that he can function w/o a belief in God. please understand, we're talking about the presence of a mental / emotional / behavioral disorder. if no disorder exists, then he is "healthy." hot stuff, carrie, correct me if i'm wrong here or not nuanced enough. pax christi, phatcatholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted July 11, 2005 Author Share Posted July 11, 2005 Spot on PC!! Well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted July 12, 2005 Author Share Posted July 12, 2005 Pass some of that over this way Carrie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 *hands over popcorn* We might be waiting awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 i brought drinks :spit: :pepsi: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted July 12, 2005 Author Share Posted July 12, 2005 * Passes popcorn to PhatCatholic* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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