Therapy and Psychology

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='rckllnknny' date='Jul 8 2005, 04:23 PM']Rationalization:          Offering a socially acceptable and apparently more or less logical explanation for an act or decision actually produced by unconscious impulses.  The person rationalizing is not intentionally inventing a story to fool someone else, but instead is misleading self as well as the listener.  Examples: (1) a man buys a new car, having convinced himself that his older car won't make it through the winter. (2) a woman with a closet full of dresses buys a new one because she doesn't have anything to wear.
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rick...... i know its fun to get into these deep arguements with people.....u see my first experience on phatmass.....i was the same way.......i just wanted to pick at people and start fights. I still enjoy it to this day i must admit. but i think it is something that we should both work on. I think we need to find a more subtle way to get our points across. Maybe we need a reality check i dont know. maybe we are right, but we will never reach people (if we are right) if we continue to slander them.

[Jaime]

You've found a spot on definition of projection and a good definition of rationalization there Ricky!!

[quote]projection was the first stage. do you see how your behaviors, after repeatively denying what your {intentions} actions was shown, continued to progress after denial and justification had spread like a disease continuing to infect your already emotionally unstabe and insecure attitude about things? you consciencesly are aware of the guilt and embarassment that is being covered up by your anger. also you bringing other people into the conflict hands you over more power.[/quote]

Wonderful example of projection. Excellent

[quote]btw..i dont have a degree..my wisdom and insight comes from the Father..those gifts that you believe arent enough. instead somebody should go to you??[/quote]

And a wonderful example of rationalization! Perfect!




Rick seriously what is your problem with me? You've already said that you are not against therapy. Carrie, PhatCatholic. Cmom and myself are patiently waiting for someone who has a [b]problem[/b] with therapy.

[Carrie]

Rick, it was ME who pointed out that your earlier definition of projection was incorrect. Why are you still attacking hot stuff when it was I who commented?

Your personal vendetta does nothing for your position.

And as hot stuff said, we're waiting to debate with people who have real concerns about therapy. This thread wasn't started to sling mud back and forth.

You've stated that you're cool with therapy, so technically, shouldn't you be on our side??

[rckllnknny]

All of you are right.
I apologize.

[rckllnknny]

infinitelord if you need some advice or need someone to talk to ...email me. i cant relate to the exact nature of some of your problems. but ive been through unimaginable things. i can offer alot of help too.

Edited July 9, 2005 by rckllnknny

[PedroX]

Just a word that most priests are not equipped to deal with serious psychological problems. It is easy to say "Go talk to a priest rather than a shrink", but it may not be the most productive answer to your problems. A person who is trained both in Psychology and Theology is ideal. One who supports and encourages your walk with God and who can recognize the deeper issues/problems at hand.

And, for Carrie, here's a shout out for the Social Workers!

peace...

[Carrie]

[quote name='PedroX' date='Jul 9 2005, 11:16 AM']Just a word that most priests are not equipped to deal with serious psychological problems.  It is easy to say "Go talk to a priest rather than a shrink", but it may not be the most productive answer to your problems.  A person who is trained both in Psychology and Theology is ideal.  One who supports and encourages your walk with God and who can recognize the deeper issues/problems at hand.

And, for Carrie, here's a shout out for the Social Workers!

peace...
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Pedro is right. I don't know many people trained in both theology and psychology (besides hot stuff) but a priest who doesn't feel equipped to handle a situation will often recommend you to someone they trust.

And YAY for social workers!! They're so important to so many people!!

:wub:

[Semperviva]

.......going to a priest for confessionwho has a sound perspective of theology and sound view of psychology can be an extremely healing experience...the first confession i ever engaged in, in which my voice wasen't shaking and i wasen't more scared then i've ever ( which is how i am in every confession) was with this one preist who, if not a psychologist, was extrmeemly knowledgable on the subject...he just had immmense insight into the full human person- MIND and SOUL...intense...praise God...

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Carrie' date='Jul 6 2005, 01:27 PM']Umm, well, Katie Couric IS your avatar.  Moonlighting maybe?
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i cannot respect any journalist who decides to have a colonoscopy on national TV.

Therapy isn't bad, but Americans expect it to be more than it really is. It's the drug of choice. We expect it to be all things, we expect therapists to be perfect, sinless, all-knowing...maybe like God? We expect therapists to care, to suffer with us, to listen perfectly...like God.

Therapy didn't die for your sins, it didn't rise from the dead. There is no worldly substitute for the healing power of God's mercy.

Maybe Catholic psychotherapy is different. I don't know. Personally, some of the WORST advice I've ever recieved has come from therapist. Certain things have happened in therapy that have scarred me for life. I feel like I should be seeing a therapist just to get over the carp therapy has put me through. Catholic psychotherapy seems even worse than secular therapy, because not only would they be screwing people up, but they'd be doing it in the name of God. Now, some people say therapy helps people, and I'm not going to argue with them. Therapy helps SOME people with SOME problems. Therapy works. There are some really caring, compassionate therapists out there. I've never met one, but people keep telling me they're out there. That's all I can say. if you really want to know more, you can PM me and ask.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jul 7 2005, 12:03 PM']The time I spent in therapy was the hardest and most rewarding work I have ever done  in my life.  [outside of childbirth]

The trick is to know what you are looking for, and find a therapist you click with and can ultimately trust.
Good therapy is reparenting. Great therapy is life-giving.
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what is this "good therapy" you speak of? every therapist i've ever seen has belittled me, told me i am abnormal, talked to me like I'm an imbecile, given me terrible advice and made me feel completely worthless.

and i've seen many therapists.

[Jaime]

[quote]i cannot respect any journalist who decides to have a colonoscopy on national TV.[/quote]

Not even if her husband died of colon cancer? It doubt it was a publicity stunt. [quote]
Therapy didn't die for your sins, it didn't rise from the dead. There is no worldly substitute for the healing power of God's mercy.[/quote]

In many cases there is a vast and wide differences between our sins and our dysfunctions. What sin has a child committed who was sexually abused? What sin has a person committed who is in severe depression?

[quote]Personally, some of the WORST advice I've ever recieved has come from therapist. [/quote]

Sometimes we get bad advice from therapists. You're right that therapists are only human. However, and this is the tricky part. Sometimes we get advice that we need but don't want to hear. Real therapy is not about making us "feel better" but to get a better understanding of what is really happening in our lives. There are schools of therapeutic thought where, unless the relationship between client and therapist becomes tense and adversarial, healing cannot occur.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Jul 10 2005, 03:07 AM']i cannot respect any journalist who decides to have a colonoscopy on national TV.

Therapy isn't bad, but Americans expect it to be more than it really is.  It's the drug of choice.  We expect it to be all things, we expect therapists to be perfect, sinless, all-knowing...maybe like God?  We expect therapists to care, to suffer with us, to listen perfectly...like God.

Therapy didn't die for your sins, it didn't rise from the dead.  There is no worldly substitute for the healing power of God's mercy.

Maybe Catholic psychotherapy is different.  I don't know.  Personally, some of the WORST advice I've ever recieved has come from therapist.  Certain things have happened in therapy that have scarred me for life.  I feel like I should be seeing a therapist just to get over the carp therapy has put me through.  Catholic psychotherapy seems even worse than secular therapy, because not only would they be screwing people up, but they'd be doing it in the name of God.  Now, some people say therapy helps people, and I'm not going to argue with them.  Therapy helps SOME people with SOME problems.  Therapy works.  There are some really caring, compassionate therapists out there.  I've never met one, but people keep telling me they're out there.  That's all I can say.  if you really want to know more, you can PM me and ask.
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Maybe you expected that a therapist be god-like and sinless, but that was a mistake on your part, not the therapists. No therapist claims they are a substitute for God or His healing powers. My therapist was an agnostic, but he had a good understanding of Catholic theology and was very respectful of our beliefs.
I am sorry you have not yet benefited from good therapy.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Jul 10 2005, 04:53 AM']In many cases there is a vast and wide differences between our sins and our dysfunctions.  What sin has a child committed who was sexually abused?  What sin has a person committed who is in severe depression?
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I didn't mean it that way. Though, I started struggling with depression early on (like 12 years on) and I always felt like it was my fault and therapy was a punishment imposed upon me. I still feel like my depression and my abuse is in fact my fault. But you can be depressed, or abused, and it's not your fault. it's not universal. It only applies to me.

I wasn't saying that having mental illness is a sin. I was saying that American society views Psychotherapy as a solution to all problems, which leads us away from Jesus, who really is the solution to all of our problems. Throughout my life I have constantly been told that therapy and medication are the ONLY things that can help me. And medication has helped me. But therapy has only screwed me up and made me selfish and narcissistic. I talk about myself a lot, and i think that comes from spending HOURS every day being forced to talk about my problems...and then the therapist always made me feel bad about having those problems. Therapy is just one big guilt-trip. Who wouldn't see a therapist as an adversary, if they constantly belittled you and made you feel worthless? You say, "There are schools of therapeutic thought where, unless the relationship between client and therapist becomes tense and adversarial, healing cannot occur." Well, I never experienced the healing. I just got a lot of guilt and pain. Plus I'm going to be abnormal and unclean for the rest of my life. Most people will hear my story and tell me "maybe you should see a therapist." They just don't get it.

When I said bad advice, I wasn't talking about therapists telling me stuff I didn't want to hear. Here are some brilliant pieces of advice I have recieved from "therapists."

"I think getting a boyfriend would really help you feel better about yourself."
"Maybe you just need bigger breasts. Have you thought about plastic surgery" (said to a 17 year old)
"Have you thought about masturbating? It can help relieve sexual tension"
"You really need to start exploring your sexuality. Have you thought about the fact that you might be gay? Maybe you should have a relationship with a girl and see where it goes."

Because I was a total idiot when I was in therapy, I actually tried following their advice, thinking, "hey, they're therapists, and i'm worthless, so they must know better than I do." Obviously they didn't, but I was always told that therapists knew better, and that I knew nothing. Now I know that I don't need a boyfriend, nor plastic surgery. And we all know what the Church teaches about masturbation and homosexuality. But I didn't know that then. I was always taught that I knew nothing and couldn't help myself.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jul 10 2005, 10:06 AM']Maybe you expected that a therapist be god-like and sinless, but that was a mistake on your part, not the therapists. No therapist claims they are a substitute for God or His healing powers. My therapist was an agnostic, but he had a good understanding of Catholic theology and was very respectful of our beliefs. 
I am sorry you have not yet benefited from good therapy.
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I'm not saying that therapists claim to be God. Obviously, if they did, THEY would be the ones in the mental institutions. But I am saying that American society puts therapists on a pedastal. The way Americans talk about therapy, you WOULD think it's the solution to all problems, more important than friends and family.

I started therapy as a 12 year old. I didn't choose my own therapist, and I didn't do it for myself, I did it to please others. When I was a teenager, I didn't think for myself. I was in day treatment programs and other such things, and the programs always told us not to question our therapists. Therapists were always right. Therapists knew what they were doing. We were always the ones with the depression, the eating disorders, the self-mutilation, the sexual abuse. We were required to tell them everything about our lives, and bear all. They were adults, we were teenagers. We had to tell them everything about our lives. They shared nothing with us about their lives. Therapists always have this air of mystery to them. You never really know what they're thinking. When I was a teenager in therapy programs, we never suspected that therapists actually might have their own problems. They never talked about having problems, so how would we know? If we asked them about their home lives, they'd tell us that it's not our business. But obviously every little aspect of our lives was their business. It made no sense.

I have a problem with one person knowing everything about me, and me knowing nothing about them.

I never expected my therapists to be god-like and without sin. I knew there had to be *something* wrong with them. But I was always taught that therapists have no problems, they are always right, and that therapy is the answer to all of my problems.

Then I found the real God.

[cmotherofpirl]

I am sorry you met with such bad advice.