Cam42 Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Well said..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Jul 22 2005, 01:20 AM']The problems of many people who I have known that seek "professional" help is that they have life too easy and are focused too much on what they want, instead of being focus on what God wants.[/quote] I'm sorry but I have to disagree here. While this may be the source of some people's problems, this is certainly not the case for all. Many people in therapy are there because of traumatic situations in their lives that need resolution, not because of lack of faith. Contrary to what you've said, I know people who have gone into therapy because their faith in God has given them the strength to realize they have a dysfunction and need help. God has given them the strength to get extra support, rather than give up. God literally gave them the strength to fight to live. These people are full of faith and absolutely do focus on what God wants! [quote]hot stuff, Carrie - I believe that you have a lot to learn in regards to psychology, logical analysis, and how real God is. [/quote] I agree with hot stuff here. [quote]The best therapy is truth. When people first seek the kingdom of God, all their problems will fade. [/quote] Even people full of faith and full of truth have problems. I don't remember any statement saying "when you are full of truth, all your problems will disappear. On the contrary, aren't we called to suffer? Thank you for coming back into the thread and dialoging with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Jul 22 2005, 01:20 AM']The best therapy is truth. When people first seek the kingdom of God, all their problems will fade. [right][snapback]653729[/snapback][/right] [/quote] That is a ridiculous statement. Problems like depression, post-traumatic stress, homosexuality, gender identity disorder, schizophrenia, and eating disorders do not go away once a person becomes a Christian. I know a lot of very good Christians who are solid in their faith, and they still struggle with mental illness. In fact, people with mental illness are more prone to despair and scrupulosity. Should the Church abandon these people and say "just pray and ask God to make you normal?" I know MANY people who pray daily that their problems will go away, and sometimes is isn't God's will to get rid of illness. You make it seem like people who have mental illnesses can choose whether or not to be mental ill based on whether or not they choose to follow God. Would you tell someone who had diabetes or tuberculosis not to go to a doctor because the problem is just that they're not seeking God enough? I hope you wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy the Ninja Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 FYI - Don John is recovering and should be back on here in the not too distant future. Thank you for your prayers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 [quote name='photosynthesis' date='Jul 22 2005, 10:50 AM']That is a ridiculous statement. Problems like depression, post-traumatic stress, homosexuality, gender identity disorder, schizophrenia, and eating disorders do not go away once a person becomes a Christian. I know a lot of very good Christians who are solid in their faith, and they still struggle with mental illness. In fact, people with mental illness are more prone to despair and scrupulosity. Should the Church abandon these people and say "just pray and ask God to make you normal?" I know MANY people who pray daily that their problems will go away, and sometimes is isn't God's will to get rid of illness. You make it seem like people who have mental illnesses can choose whether or not to be mental ill based on whether or not they choose to follow God. Would you tell someone who had diabetes or tuberculosis not to go to a doctor because the problem is just that they're not seeking God enough? I hope you wouldn't. [right][snapback]654109[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I'm not talking about mental illness, I'm talking about behavior problems. Most depression is not a chemical problem, it has to do with our point of view of things going on around us. Many people with problems of depression have them because their life is too easy or they are focusing to much on what they want instead of what God wants, some don't help others enough. Problems are only as big as we allow them to be. Almost everything can be corrected with the proper point of view. All the psychological help we need can be found in the faith... So much is in Scripture... what is not in Scripture can be found in the Catechism and the writings of the saints. People who want to change can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Jul 22 2005, 01:22 PM']Many people with problems of depression have them because their life is too easy or they are focusing to much on what they want instead of what God wants, some don't help others enough. Problems are only as big as we allow them to be. People who want to change can. [right][snapback]654289[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Please read my post above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Jul 22 2005, 01:22 PM']I'm not talking about mental illness, I'm talking about behavior problems. Most depression is not a chemical problem, it has to do with our point of view of things going on around us. Many people with problems of depression have them because their life is too easy or they are focusing to much on what they want instead of what God wants, some don't help others enough. Problems are only as big as we allow them to be. Almost everything can be corrected with the proper point of view. All the psychological help we need can be found in the faith... So much is in Scripture... what is not in Scripture can be found in the Catechism and the writings of the saints. People who want to change can. [right][snapback]654289[/snapback][/right] [/quote] that is total BS. it sounds like you know nothing about depression. Depression is not a behavior problem, it is a mood disorder. Sometimes depression is caused by circumstances such as abuse, illness, problems at home, problems at work, school, etc. Sometimes it's a chemical imbalance. Antidepressant pills don't help everyone, but they do help many people overcome depression, along with prayer, therapy and support from friends and family. And the "proper point of view" you talk about makes it sound like you're coming from more of a cognitive perspective and not a behavioral one. Many people suffer from depression [i]because [/i]of cognitive distortions (irrational/abnormal thoughts or beliefs). Low self-esteem, believing that everyone hates you, believing that you deserve past abuse/illness/pain, all of these are cognitive distortions that make people feel depressed. Therapy can help people see their distorted thinking and overcome their problems. That does not mean it is a substitute for having a relationship with God and an active prayer life, and there are MANY people who go to therapy because they're looking for God in the wrong places. But good Catholics can and do go to therapy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 [quote name='photosynthesis' date='Jul 22 2005, 02:28 PM']that is total BS. it sounds like you know nothing about depression. Depression is not a behavior problem, it is a mood disorder. Sometimes depression is caused by circumstances such as abuse, illness, problems at home, problems at work, school, etc. Sometimes it's a chemical imbalance. Antidepressant pills don't help everyone, but they do help many people overcome depression, along with prayer, therapy and support from friends and family. And the "proper point of view" you talk about makes it sound like you're coming from more of a cognitive perspective and not a behavioral one. Many people suffer from depression [i]because [/i]of cognitive distortions (irrational/abnormal thoughts or beliefs). Low self-esteem, believing that everyone hates you, believing that you deserve past abuse/illness/pain, all of these are cognitive distortions that make people feel depressed. Therapy can help people see their distorted thinking and overcome their problems. That does not mean it is a substitute for having a relationship with God and an active prayer life, and there are MANY people who go to therapy because they're looking for God in the wrong places. But good Catholics can and do go to therapy. [right][snapback]654407[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 (edited) "Most depression is not a chemical problem, it has to do with our point of view of things going on around us. Many people with problems of depression have them because their life is too easy or they are focusing to much on what they want instead of what God wants, some don't help others enough. Problems are only as big as we allow them to be. Almost everything can be corrected with the proper point of view" Ironmonk. [color=blue]You have absolutely no qualifications for making such sweeping generalizations. You are simply promugating more myths about mental illness [depression IS a mental illness] and harming those who need help the most. [/color] Edited July 23, 2005 by cmotherofpirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jul 23 2005, 11:09 AM']"Most depression is not a chemical problem, it has to do with our point of view of things going on around us. Many people with problems of depression have them because their life is too easy or they are focusing to much on what they want instead of what God wants, some don't help others enough. Problems are only as big as we allow them to be. Almost everything can be corrected with the proper point of view" Ironmonk. [color=blue]You have absolutely no qualifications for making such sweeping generalizations. You are simply promugating more myths about mental illness [depression IS a mental illness] and harming those who need help the most. [/color] [right][snapback]655692[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I believe he has already stated what his qualifications where, so stating he has no qualifications is not factually correct, nor is it appropriate since unless you know Ironmonk personally you really don't know what his qualifications regarding anthing, simularly I have not seen Carrie's degree, nor Jamie's ,they could both be lying about having "qualifications" and who would know-- we are on the internet. Jamie and Carrie I am not acccusing you of anything just pointing out the stupidity of the " you aren't qualified statement". Personaly I think a doctorate in psycology qualifies you for nothing more than janitorial work at the stockyard but that is just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Jul 19 2005, 08:45 AM']I hope Don John's ok and still isn't feverish [right][snapback]649568[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I sincerly thank you for your prayers. I am feeling better today, not up to snuff but better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 [quote name='Carrie' date='Jul 20 2005, 09:17 AM']Me too. DJ, hope all is well... [right][snapback]650844[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I thank you for your prayers as well. I needed them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 We totally disagree but I am glad you are feeling better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 (edited) [quote name='hot stuff' date='Jul 15 2005, 06:24 AM']Hope your feeling better. Here's some more "tripe". Now how's about backing up your sweeping opinions? [right][snapback]644348[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Yes I remember the psychology of priestly formation, I particularly remember the Fransican Psychologist who came to my formation house to "elaluate" us. After being accused of being liars-- which happened within the first 15 minutes of his general session with the entire house, we where systematicly "evaluated" ---- You ant to know one of the major reasons why vocations are down, it is using "psychology' in priestly formation. Somehow the Church survived 1900 years without using psychology in priestly formation, and yet now that we increase it's use we have fewer and fewer priest---- what a shock. JPII was wrong to intergect psychology into anything Church related. Edited July 23, 2005 by Don John of Austria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jul 23 2005, 01:16 PM']We totally disagree but I am glad you are feeling better. [right][snapback]655822[/snapback][/right] [/quote] thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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